[Discussion] Humax software update 27.45.0

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  • Sue LeightonSue Leighton Member Posts: 24
    edited 19 March 2017, 1:05PM

    Another thing that has been removed is the ability to see from the guide how long a program lasts (IE 8.40pm - 9.30pm)..... I know you can see it by pressing the info button, but that is yet another couple of button presses.

    And yes, I hate the thumbnail pics for the recorded programs - bring back the ability to view as a list (if only for the main index)

    Visionman - condescending and sarcastic - well done.
  • Edward G PercyEdward G Percy Member Posts: 19
    edited 19 March 2017, 10:13AM

    Another thing that has been removed is the ability to see from the guide how long a program lasts (IE 8.40pm - 9.30pm)..... I know you can see it by pressing the info button, but that is yet another couple of button presses.

    And yes, I hate the thumbnail pics for the recorded programs - bring back the ability to view as a list (if only for the main index)

    There is enough to read about Youview without having to read extra posts with petty arguments. 
  • Paul NormanPaul Norman Member Posts: 39
    edited 19 March 2017, 11:26AM
    Can someone tell me how to tell what has been watched and what has not on mytv now?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,871 ✭✭✭
    edited 19 March 2017, 1:48PM
    Hi Paul, and yes, thats quite easy to tell. I'll use one of my MyTV as an example -

    First enter MyTV. The mini-bar displayed will show the latest recordings you have made.
    If you haven't watched one it will just show the date
    If you have it will show 'WATCHED'
    If you have started to watch one but not finished, it will show 'PART WATCHED'
    All of the above are displayed above the name of the content recorded.
    And its the same on the main MyTV page.

    If you have a number of recordings over a number of pages, you can use the remotes channel up/down button to scroll your recordings page by page, as opposed to tile by tile.
    Any recordings made pre-NextGen won't display a picture and so will be blank.
    One of my blank tiles lists -
    Fri 25 DEC
    The name of the content
    13 EPISODES

    Hope that helps.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • AitchAitch Member Posts: 2
    edited 20 March 2017, 10:21PM
    Sanj said:

    Hi all,

    We’ve been paying close attention to all your feedback and wanted to take this opportunity to respond to your comments about MyTV. 

    Next Generation YouView, and with that MyTV, was designed to be image-led to make it easier to find your favourite programmes. We rigorously tested each function and feature and for others, particularly families with children, the new design has made it easier for them to pick out the shows that they want to watch.  

    We want to make YouView the best way to enjoy TV for everyone and our Product and Design Teams are continuously looking at ways to make improvements. One of the key goals of MyTV was to show you more of your recorded content so 12 programmes are now displayed per page compared to the 9 we showed in the original YouView interface.

    To give you some insight, during our pre launch testing, MyTV’s satisfaction ratings continually increased the longer our customers used it but having said that we’re always keen to hear your feedback and take steps to help improve the way you navigate in MyTV.

    Since the roll out of Next Gen commenced across our boxes, we’ve added page navigation using the programme +/- buttons to the Retail Next Gen update to aid exploration around MyTV. This will also roll out to TalkTalk TV and BT TV customers too.

    We understand how important your recordings are and wanted to reassure you that we are looking at ways we can improve your experience.

    'Particularly families with children'  Children who can't read well should not be watching TV unsupervised.  Children are only a small percentage of the population, so why should that be the group you design for? Older people make the spending decisions and it looks as though quite a few of us will be looking for a non-YouView alternative. Also if the designers can't understand a simple fact that it is normal to watch the oldest episodes of series recordings first, and program accordingly,  then they should be in a different job. Making collages with nursery children perhaps..
  • squirrelpiesquirrelpie Member Posts: 16
    edited 3 April 2017, 10:46PM
    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,871 ✭✭✭
    edited 19 March 2017, 7:03PM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    Then take it back.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Edward G PercyEdward G Percy Member Posts: 19
    edited 19 March 2017, 8:46PM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    That has often happened on our two machines.

    My wife had a half hour programme today that only had 13 minutes as the recording started late.

  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,871 ✭✭✭
    edited 19 March 2017, 9:22PM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    Then obtain another box, EGP. Only to find that when you record the same programme from the same EPG, the same thing happens on that one too.
    As its the broadcaster and not any particular box thats at fault here.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • squirrelpiesquirrelpie Member Posts: 16
    edited 19 March 2017, 10:16PM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    Does the BBC admit that it's its fault? Where can I read about this problem that affects all DVRs?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 9,871 ✭✭✭
    edited 19 March 2017, 11:03PM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    https://community.youview.com/youview/topics/recording-ends-before-programme-end
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • squirrelpiesquirrelpie Member Posts: 16
    edited 20 March 2017, 12:52AM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    No, that's not my problem. A zero length recording is something different. Do you still say it is the BBC's problem and what evidence is there?
  • ian3ian3 Member Posts: 4
    edited 4 April 2017, 8:18PM

    I thought BT machines were going to be next.
    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/software-updates/humax-software-update-27-45-0

    Chris (Lincoln, UK)

    The new software update is awful and full of bugs. It now only records the first fews seconds of programmes, the new home screen is awful and the list view of your recorded programmes which was easy to scroll down has gone and you can no longer edit the channels, my youview box was faultless before this update. Please fix.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 March 2017, 3:33PM

    I thought BT machines were going to be next.
    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/software-updates/humax-software-update-27-45-0

    Chris (Lincoln, UK)

    Partial recordings is an issue with your individual box, not a generic one. Follow the tips here:-

    https://community.youview.com/youview...

    for progressively more far-reaching resets, until either recordings work properly, or the box is a smoking ruin.

    The rest of your post is an accurate description either of the changes in NextGen (where objective), or of your reaction to them (where subjective).

    Good luck!
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • SpargoSpargo Member Posts: 31
    edited 20 March 2017, 11:49PM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    I have a Panasonic DMR BWT735 (twin tuners and DVD recorder/player) and the Humax T2000. As a test I recorded the same programme on both. I did this when I first had the Humax, before the new Humax software, and also did it today with the updated software. The Panasonic has padding both before and after a recording and I think the Humax has the same because the recordings started and finished at the same point, give or take 1 second. I usually watch BBC1, 2 or 4 and have never, to my knowledge, missed any bits on the Panasonic on these channels. On ITV4 especially programmes are often cut short by a minute or so.

    One feature of the Panasonic I like is that if a transmission is interrupted, say by poor reception, so that the recording is incomplete, it will look to see if the programme is transmitted again and reschedule it. I don't know if the Humax does this.

    If a programme starts early so that the Humax misses the start signal, is it possible that it only sees the end and hence marks the program as zero length?

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 21 March 2017, 9:48AM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    YouView boxes do not pad (much to some users'dismay).

    They use Accurate Recording, in which they look for start and stop (more accurately, transition) markers in the broadcast metastream.

    In true AR, these will be dynamically adjusted by the broadcasters according to the exact start and stop times of the programmes, which may not correspond to the EPG times.

    Unfortunately, AR is optional, so the second-tier broadcasters just use the EPG times; this, coupled with sloppy programme timings, sees the odd minute, or worse, added to or chopped off their programmes when you record them.

    It is not possible to get through YouView 's thick skull the folly of relying on an optional standard as if it were mandatory :-(

    I have no idea how a Panasonic using padding can get the same recording timings as a YouView box using AR, except when padding= 0 and the programme starts and stops at the exact published EPG times;.

    Perhaps you could ensure padding is On, record CBS or one of the usual suspects like them who are more cavalier with timings than the first-tier channels, and see what results you get?

    YouView boxes will reschedule recordings if they detect malfunctions.

    YouView boxes wake up about 15 minutes before a scheduled programme is on, and start looking for it. A start signal would have to be very early indeed for the box to miss it.

    You could try pulling the aerial over the start time, though, to deliberately make the box miss the start signal, and then put it back to see what happens.

    There is a situation where if you are recording programmes A and B, and scheduling C back to back with B, while A keeps recording throughout, and then B overruns, that clash management needs to decide whether to switch from B to C, or to let B run on, and only after it record C.

    I believe it does the former, though I could be wrong.

    Still shouldn't get a zero length recording though, unless the broadcaster fubars the AR; in which case every YouView box set to record that programme will experience the same issue.

    When your YouView box is active on two channels, but an upcoming recording is on a third, the box needs to get the start time for that third programme from the metastream on one of the two channels it is currently tuned to.

    This eventuality is provided for in the metastream, but trophytr5 did some work a long while back proving this doesn't always work in the case of some channel/mux combinations.

    Code to fix this was rolled out in an earlier release, but that release was pulled due to major issues, and the fixed code was not in the next release, and as far as I know, has never since been released.

    I surmise that the 'fix' caused the major issues, the problem proved rather intractable, and no-one has tried again since, so the issue does remain; this might cause recordings to be missed.

    NB: why are you still posting in the 45 thread when 46 is out there?
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • SpargoSpargo Member Posts: 31
    edited 21 March 2017, 9:08PM

    Well I had another failed recording this afternoon. I recorded House that 100K Built on BBC2 and the box says it recorded 1 hour from 2:30pm to 3:29pm but when I go to play it, it says the programme has length 0:00.

    So that's not fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

    Roy, I assumed that padding was the process of changing the start and end times so that there was more chance of recording a programme properly but I suspect that assumption is wrong.

    On my Panasonic the start and end times are set to be the guide start times and so far I have never changed them for a recording.

    On your suggestion I recorded a programme from CBS this morning. The recordings worked OK on both and started just before the end of the previous programme. Interestingly the Panasonic started about 6 seconds before the Humax but both ended at the same point and recorded the end of the programme.

    I don't think that 45 was the previous version on my Humax but I don't know what it was. However, it had lists in all the right places and was easy to use. I will post in the right place in future.

  • Alistair WemAlistair Wem Member Posts: 2
    edited 4 April 2017, 8:18PM

    I thought BT machines were going to be next.
    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/software-updates/humax-software-update-27-45-0

    Chris (Lincoln, UK)

    Worrying infantile new interface. I have bought a number of these boxes will now need to find alternative supplier
  • Alistair WemAlistair Wem Member Posts: 2
    edited 14 April 2017, 4:16PM
    jimb said:

    Sanj could you please tell us if there is any significant functional difference between this release and the TalkTalk release?

    I agree. Seems they assume we can't read or use an index. As usual the original guys knew what they were doing. Now taken over by children.
  • J EelesJ Eeles Member Posts: 2
    edited 24 March 2017, 6:06PM
    The software update is a retrograde step, most notably on the recordings screen. Before it used to be easy to get a nice list of the recordings and therefore go to the right programme and select the first in a series. Now the big pictures make it harder to navigate as the text is less clear and it's harder to get to the first programme rather than the most recent. PLEASE revert to the old format or at the very least give a settings option to have a list version.
  • Sarah Lovelace1Sarah Lovelace1 Member Posts: 28
    edited 25 March 2017, 10:20AM
    J Eeles said:

    The software update is a retrograde step, most notably on the recordings screen. Before it used to be easy to get a nice list of the recordings and therefore go to the right programme and select the first in a series. Now the big pictures make it harder to navigate as the text is less clear and it's harder to get to the first programme rather than the most recent. PLEASE revert to the old format or at the very least give a settings option to have a list version.

    This is so true...and many people are saying the same..so come on YouView..sort it out please
  • J EelesJ Eeles Member Posts: 2
    edited 19 April 2017, 9:35AM
    Also, on stopping playback you used to press back then one button for delete. Now stopping playback goes to the list, you have to scroll through to find the programme (less easy with tiles rather than a text list), then enter and find the episode then delete. Why ? It used to be very simple now the process is a lot longer. Does progress = adding time and reducing efficiency ?

    One other useful feature my Humax Freeview box had was the ability to type in a number when watching a recording to go to that % through the recording. My Humax YouView box doesn't have this. It's surprising how useful that was ...
  • Matthew JohnsMatthew Johns Member Posts: 98
    edited 24 March 2017, 6:06PM
    J Eeles said:

    Also, on stopping playback you used to press back then one button for delete. Now stopping playback goes to the list, you have to scroll through to find the programme (less easy with tiles rather than a text list), then enter and find the episode then delete. Why ? It used to be very simple now the process is a lot longer. Does progress = adding time and reducing efficiency ?

    One other useful feature my Humax Freeview box had was the ability to type in a number when watching a recording to go to that % through the recording. My Humax YouView box doesn't have this. It's surprising how useful that was ...

    As far as additional functionality goes the ability to leap to a percentage through a recording is one that I really miss. It's little used but when recording Event-TV like an 8 hour Olympics broadcast then fast forwarding just isn't up to the job. 
  • Tim CTim C Member, Super User Posts: 506 ✭✭
    edited 22 March 2017, 3:03PM
    J Eeles said:

    Also, on stopping playback you used to press back then one button for delete. Now stopping playback goes to the list, you have to scroll through to find the programme (less easy with tiles rather than a text list), then enter and find the episode then delete. Why ? It used to be very simple now the process is a lot longer. Does progress = adding time and reducing efficiency ?

    One other useful feature my Humax Freeview box had was the ability to type in a number when watching a recording to go to that % through the recording. My Humax YouView box doesn't have this. It's surprising how useful that was ...

    With CurrentGen you can enter the time to skip to on playback, no idea about NextGen
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,097 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 March 2017, 6:05PM
    J Eeles said:

    Also, on stopping playback you used to press back then one button for delete. Now stopping playback goes to the list, you have to scroll through to find the programme (less easy with tiles rather than a text list), then enter and find the episode then delete. Why ? It used to be very simple now the process is a lot longer. Does progress = adding time and reducing efficiency ?

    One other useful feature my Humax Freeview box had was the ability to type in a number when watching a recording to go to that % through the recording. My Humax YouView box doesn't have this. It's surprising how useful that was ...

    To be exact, you enter the duration in minutes through the programme that you want to skip to, on CurrentGen.

    On NextGen, this functionality is currently missing.

    To counterbalance this, though, no-one with NextGen need ever pay for a haircut again :-)
    These tests for COVID-19 might get right up my nose, if only I could get one
  • Paul KeelingPaul Keeling Member Posts: 1
    edited 19 April 2017, 9:35AM
    I have the Humax update, and largely dislike it considerably.

    The tile screen for recorded programmes is incredibly difficult to make sense of, and a huge step backwards. Instead of a clear, ordered list of programmes and groups of programmes, now I'm met with a visual confusion of pictures.

    There is insufficient text on those pictures, and on the screen showing multiple recorded episodes.

    This is absolutely not an improvement, and I want to revert to a written list.

    I also miss the small screen on the guide page. Why would you get rid of that useful feature?!

    The only thing I do like is the shortcut icon list on the initial screen, but even that has annoying pictures instead of useful text.

    Obviously it's a waste of time my complaining about this, because huge corporations never admit they're wrong. But I bet Sky are happy with your changes.
  • Sarah Lovelace1Sarah Lovelace1 Member Posts: 28
    edited 24 March 2017, 6:05PM

    I have the Humax update, and largely dislike it considerably.

    The tile screen for recorded programmes is incredibly difficult to make sense of, and a huge step backwards. Instead of a clear, ordered list of programmes and groups of programmes, now I'm met with a visual confusion of pictures.

    There is insufficient text on those pictures, and on the screen showing multiple recorded episodes.

    This is absolutely not an improvement, and I want to revert to a written list.

    I also miss the small screen on the guide page. Why would you get rid of that useful feature?!

    The only thing I do like is the shortcut icon list on the initial screen, but even that has annoying pictures instead of useful text.

    Obviously it's a waste of time my complaining about this, because huge corporations never admit they're wrong. But I bet Sky are happy with your changes.

    I sincerely hope that somebody from YouView is taking notice of all these complaints ...the latest update is extremely unpopular
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 March 2017, 10:26AM

    I have the Humax update, and largely dislike it considerably.

    The tile screen for recorded programmes is incredibly difficult to make sense of, and a huge step backwards. Instead of a clear, ordered list of programmes and groups of programmes, now I'm met with a visual confusion of pictures.

    There is insufficient text on those pictures, and on the screen showing multiple recorded episodes.

    This is absolutely not an improvement, and I want to revert to a written list.

    I also miss the small screen on the guide page. Why would you get rid of that useful feature?!

    The only thing I do like is the shortcut icon list on the initial screen, but even that has annoying pictures instead of useful text.

    Obviously it's a waste of time my complaining about this, because huge corporations never admit they're wrong. But I bet Sky are happy with your changes.

    YouView representatives have repeatedly stated that they value all the feedback given here. And yes, the update does seem to be extremely unpopular amongst those complaining about it.
  • Sue LeightonSue Leighton Member Posts: 24
    edited 24 March 2017, 6:04PM

    I have the Humax update, and largely dislike it considerably.

    The tile screen for recorded programmes is incredibly difficult to make sense of, and a huge step backwards. Instead of a clear, ordered list of programmes and groups of programmes, now I'm met with a visual confusion of pictures.

    There is insufficient text on those pictures, and on the screen showing multiple recorded episodes.

    This is absolutely not an improvement, and I want to revert to a written list.

    I also miss the small screen on the guide page. Why would you get rid of that useful feature?!

    The only thing I do like is the shortcut icon list on the initial screen, but even that has annoying pictures instead of useful text.

    Obviously it's a waste of time my complaining about this, because huge corporations never admit they're wrong. But I bet Sky are happy with your changes.

    The representatives of YouView may say they value the feedback but what action are they taking to address the issues raised by so many people, all of whom seem to be of the same mind? Not a lot! To quote the late Paul Daniels!!
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭
    edited 23 March 2017, 9:03PM

    I have the Humax update, and largely dislike it considerably.

    The tile screen for recorded programmes is incredibly difficult to make sense of, and a huge step backwards. Instead of a clear, ordered list of programmes and groups of programmes, now I'm met with a visual confusion of pictures.

    There is insufficient text on those pictures, and on the screen showing multiple recorded episodes.

    This is absolutely not an improvement, and I want to revert to a written list.

    I also miss the small screen on the guide page. Why would you get rid of that useful feature?!

    The only thing I do like is the shortcut icon list on the initial screen, but even that has annoying pictures instead of useful text.

    Obviously it's a waste of time my complaining about this, because huge corporations never admit they're wrong. But I bet Sky are happy with your changes.

    Those posting here who are "of the same mind" as you put it are not necessarily representative of YouView users as a whole, or even of more than a small minority, do try and appreciate that.
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