Signal strength - the YouView explanation

SavenSaven Posts: 5Member
edited 19 April 2017, 6:05PM in Support
Like others, I had signal strength problems with my Humax box. Low strength giving breakup and pixellation on some channels, notably Quest ,which I watch a fair bit. I should say that the aerial lead from my wall goes into my Humax then out and into the TV which had a full signal and reception on all channels.

I ran Humax and was told that the problem could not be the box, it had to be YouView. I was told that Humax make the hardware but YouView make the software.

I rang YouView and was told that TV sets have a built in aerial booster but YouView boxes do not and that I would need to fit an aerial booster. He could not answer the problem I suggested, that if I fitted a booster to the aerial feed into the YouView box then the signal going through to the TV would be boosted and so give problems.

Based on what I have been told by Humax and YouView, it's quite logical for me to assume that YouView is simply not fit for purpose or of merchantable quality.

The pity is that we were very pleased with what YouView did when it was working correctly.

Comments

  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 9 April 2017, 7:53PM
    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • SavenSaven Posts: 5Member
    edited 4 April 2017, 9:10PM
    No, they just told me I needed an aerial booster. I had done all the steps with no success anyway.
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,143Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 January 2017, 12:24PM
    Tom Barry said:

    No, they just told me I needed an aerial booster. I had done all the steps with no success anyway.

    I was having problems with our second box with a very poor aerial at the back of the house. A £10 signal booster made a massive difference.
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 315Member
    edited 12 March 2017, 7:39PM
    When I fist installed a youview box it too suffered from some channels
    either dropping out or pixelating due to the signal being too weak on those channels.  My other receivers and recorders were fine.

    I can receive from two different transmitters for two different regions, and with one of those the transmitter's reception can occasionally weaken.  If I tune any of my other receivers or recorders to the worst of the 2 transmitters then sooner or later it will have dropouts or pixelation.
    When tuning  a BT youview box it does ask which region I want but it only stores the PSB channels for that region. For the other channels it stores the channel from the transmitter that is transmitting the lowest frequency for that channel.  The result is that my non-PSB channels would occasionally drop-out and pixelate. 

    If your issue is being triggered by the same cause then it is possible that when you first tuned your youview box and had no problems that the weaker of the transmitters was so weak that on that occasion the youview box decided to ignore it.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 January 2017, 6:31PM

    When I fist installed a youview box it too suffered from some channels
    either dropping out or pixelating due to the signal being too weak on those channels.  My other receivers and recorders were fine.

    I can receive from two different transmitters for two different regions, and with one of those the transmitter's reception can occasionally weaken.  If I tune any of my other receivers or recorders to the worst of the 2 transmitters then sooner or later it will have dropouts or pixelation.
    When tuning  a BT youview box it does ask which region I want but it only stores the PSB channels for that region. For the other channels it stores the channel from the transmitter that is transmitting the lowest frequency for that channel.  The result is that my non-PSB channels would occasionally drop-out and pixelate. 

    If your issue is being triggered by the same cause then it is possible that when you first tuned your youview box and had no problems that the weaker of the transmitters was so weak that on that occasion the youview box decided to ignore it.

    This is the mechanism behind the apparently counter-intuitive observation that what you need for a weak signal is not a booster, but an attenuator.

    Tuning with one of these in circuit (it is a small passive component you put in the aerial chain, probably between aerial socket and cable) pushes the weaker transmitter causing all the trouble down into the mush, so only the stronger transmitter gets tuned to.

    After which you can take it out of the chain until you next need to retune; though if you get Signal Quality 100 everywhere, and any TV daisychained off the back of the YouView box is unaffected, you might as well leave it there.

    Maplins sell them; I recommend the variable one for greater flexibility:-

    http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/variable-ae...

    Of course, YouView could help by indicating against each Freeview channel where it was getting it from, or at least which mum it was coming from, and then we could tell if we had a competing transmitters situation.

    Or even better, they could determine a decent tuning algorithm, which even the meanest Tesco 'no-name special' seems able to employ.
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 315Member
    edited 23 January 2017, 11:04AM

    When I fist installed a youview box it too suffered from some channels
    either dropping out or pixelating due to the signal being too weak on those channels.  My other receivers and recorders were fine.

    I can receive from two different transmitters for two different regions, and with one of those the transmitter's reception can occasionally weaken.  If I tune any of my other receivers or recorders to the worst of the 2 transmitters then sooner or later it will have dropouts or pixelation.
    When tuning  a BT youview box it does ask which region I want but it only stores the PSB channels for that region. For the other channels it stores the channel from the transmitter that is transmitting the lowest frequency for that channel.  The result is that my non-PSB channels would occasionally drop-out and pixelate. 

    If your issue is being triggered by the same cause then it is possible that when you first tuned your youview box and had no problems that the weaker of the transmitters was so weak that on that occasion the youview box decided to ignore it.

    Roy, that is one possible solution, but in my location it would not work.  That particular solution requires all the non-PSB muxes from the unwanted transmitter to be significant weaker than the weakest non-PSB mux on the wanted transmitter.  It may work for some and possibly including Tom if that is the cause of Tom's signal issue.  

    Another solution is to use a filter to filter out the frequencies from the undesired transmitter.  But that will only work when there is no overlap in the range of frequencies the two transmitters use, and there is a suitable filter available for the appropriate range.

    The solution that works for me on the BT/Humax boxes is to connect and disconnect the aerial when tuning at strategic points on the progress bar so that the  the frequencies from the undesired transmitter can't be seen but those from the desired transmitter are.  DVB-T UHF frequencies are tuned when the progress bar is indicating 21 less than the UHF channel number. DVB-T2 UHF frequencies are tuned when the progress bar is indicating 28 more than the UHF channel number.
    This will only work when there is a good enough gap between the 2 transmitters frequencies, and takes a bit of practice. It's more difficult on the DTR-T4000 as that tunes in a bit faster than the other boxes.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 23 January 2017, 12:09PM

    When I fist installed a youview box it too suffered from some channels
    either dropping out or pixelating due to the signal being too weak on those channels.  My other receivers and recorders were fine.

    I can receive from two different transmitters for two different regions, and with one of those the transmitter's reception can occasionally weaken.  If I tune any of my other receivers or recorders to the worst of the 2 transmitters then sooner or later it will have dropouts or pixelation.
    When tuning  a BT youview box it does ask which region I want but it only stores the PSB channels for that region. For the other channels it stores the channel from the transmitter that is transmitting the lowest frequency for that channel.  The result is that my non-PSB channels would occasionally drop-out and pixelate. 

    If your issue is being triggered by the same cause then it is possible that when you first tuned your youview box and had no problems that the weaker of the transmitters was so weak that on that occasion the youview box decided to ignore it.

    DVB-T UHF frequencies are tuned when the progress bar is indicating 21 less than the UHF channel number. DVB-T2 UHF frequencies are tuned when the progress bar is indicating 28 more than the UHF channel number.

    Sorry Yasha, perhaps I am being thick, but I didn't understand a word of that :-(

    I don't have a CurrentGen box to try it on, but I don't recall any numbers like those coming up at all when tuning a YouView box.

    My TV goes from 21 to 69 as it tunes, but even on that I cannot elucidate the above.

    On NextGen, though, it says 'Tuning Channels' (or something similar) and a long thin bar below this text starts going blue from left to right. There is no scale on this bar.

    There is also no indication of whether the tuning process finds anything or not.

    But at about 40% along its length, the text changes to 'Tuning Channels...'

    Maybe the point of handover to the HD team? :-)

    But the blue bar progresses, still no indications, until it has finished, and let you select your region, after which is tells you how many stations you tuned (109 in my case just now).

    But I have no idea quite what you do on CurrentGen, nor how you would apply this to NextGen.

    Though I get a choice of regions, this is from the same one transmitter, so I don't have competing ones to try things on.

    But if I did have the problem, I think I would employ a solution neither of us has mentioned so far, and get a very directional aerial with high lobe rejection, oriented towards the transmitter I wanted.

    No idea if YouView would buy this for me on the grounds of the box's **** tuning algorithm and UI, though :-)
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • Yasha NokeYasha Noke Posts: 315Member
    edited 24 January 2017, 10:03AM

    When I fist installed a youview box it too suffered from some channels
    either dropping out or pixelating due to the signal being too weak on those channels.  My other receivers and recorders were fine.

    I can receive from two different transmitters for two different regions, and with one of those the transmitter's reception can occasionally weaken.  If I tune any of my other receivers or recorders to the worst of the 2 transmitters then sooner or later it will have dropouts or pixelation.
    When tuning  a BT youview box it does ask which region I want but it only stores the PSB channels for that region. For the other channels it stores the channel from the transmitter that is transmitting the lowest frequency for that channel.  The result is that my non-PSB channels would occasionally drop-out and pixelate. 

    If your issue is being triggered by the same cause then it is possible that when you first tuned your youview box and had no problems that the weaker of the transmitters was so weak that on that occasion the youview box decided to ignore it.

    With the current gen it also has a long thin bar with no scale, but it displays the percentage complete as 'n% COMPLETE' which moves along from left to right updating the 'n' from 0 to 100.  There is a little pointer directly beneath the 'n% COMPLETE' sign that initially is on the far left of the long thin line and ends up on the far right of the long thin line.

    Percentages 0 to 48 have a one to one mapping map to UHF frequencies 21 to 69 and are for scanning DVB-T.  Percentages 49 to 97 have a one to one mapping map to UHF frequencies 21 to 69 and are for DVB-T2. It stalls on each % where there is a corresponding UHF broadcast.  It also stalls on 99%.

    With the redundancy of searches for UHF channel numbers 61 to 69 it makes sense that these are no longer scanned.  Keeping the long thin line with 101 notches then that would mean that the handover to DVB-T2 would be at about notch 40.  On the new gen what does the progress look like for the last 20%?  Does the "'Tuning Channels' (or something similar)" caption race through the last 20%?
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,548Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 January 2017, 12:37AM

    When I fist installed a youview box it too suffered from some channels
    either dropping out or pixelating due to the signal being too weak on those channels.  My other receivers and recorders were fine.

    I can receive from two different transmitters for two different regions, and with one of those the transmitter's reception can occasionally weaken.  If I tune any of my other receivers or recorders to the worst of the 2 transmitters then sooner or later it will have dropouts or pixelation.
    When tuning  a BT youview box it does ask which region I want but it only stores the PSB channels for that region. For the other channels it stores the channel from the transmitter that is transmitting the lowest frequency for that channel.  The result is that my non-PSB channels would occasionally drop-out and pixelate. 

    If your issue is being triggered by the same cause then it is possible that when you first tuned your youview box and had no problems that the weaker of the transmitters was so weak that on that occasion the youview box decided to ignore it.

    On channel scanning, I have to physically pull my aerial coax out of the box as soon as its starts (bye-bye BBC Wales) and physically plug it back in as you say, at around scanning bar 45-50%. Works every time.
    Mind you, thats on every other Freeview box in the house, but not my 2 YouViews or Sony YouView TV.
    Strange world...
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 January 2017, 9:34AM

    When I fist installed a youview box it too suffered from some channels
    either dropping out or pixelating due to the signal being too weak on those channels.  My other receivers and recorders were fine.

    I can receive from two different transmitters for two different regions, and with one of those the transmitter's reception can occasionally weaken.  If I tune any of my other receivers or recorders to the worst of the 2 transmitters then sooner or later it will have dropouts or pixelation.
    When tuning  a BT youview box it does ask which region I want but it only stores the PSB channels for that region. For the other channels it stores the channel from the transmitter that is transmitting the lowest frequency for that channel.  The result is that my non-PSB channels would occasionally drop-out and pixelate. 

    If your issue is being triggered by the same cause then it is possible that when you first tuned your youview box and had no problems that the weaker of the transmitters was so weak that on that occasion the youview box decided to ignore it.

    Cheers Yasha, I understand now.

    Given my long-held wish for more information as YouView tunes, it looks like this is yet another way in which NextGen has gone backwards :-(

    Oddly, the message as YouView tunes is now 'Searching for channels...' with the dots straight away. So I see no handover point from SD to HD. As before, you can see the bar pause when it finds a mux.

    All my channels are 21+ (what can that plus mean?) to 34, so the bar does a fair bit of racing, but its pauses beyond the middle of the bar indicate it is still doing the 'SD then HD' tuning sequence; no surprises there.
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • SavenSaven Posts: 5Member
    edited 6 March 2017, 9:48PM
    Rang Humax again, spoke to a different operator and he told me that the box is faulty. As my first Humax box went back with a very noisy hard disk (we thought to was birds in the garden) that's a 100% failure rate. Enough said!
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 11:06AM

    When I fist installed a youview box it too suffered from some channels
    either dropping out or pixelating due to the signal being too weak on those channels.  My other receivers and recorders were fine.

    I can receive from two different transmitters for two different regions, and with one of those the transmitter's reception can occasionally weaken.  If I tune any of my other receivers or recorders to the worst of the 2 transmitters then sooner or later it will have dropouts or pixelation.
    When tuning  a BT youview box it does ask which region I want but it only stores the PSB channels for that region. For the other channels it stores the channel from the transmitter that is transmitting the lowest frequency for that channel.  The result is that my non-PSB channels would occasionally drop-out and pixelate. 

    If your issue is being triggered by the same cause then it is possible that when you first tuned your youview box and had no problems that the weaker of the transmitters was so weak that on that occasion the youview box decided to ignore it.

    Edit: I note that above, I said:-

    Of course, YouView could help by indicating against each Freeview channel where it was getting it from, or at least which mum it was coming from, and then we could tell if we had a competing transmitters situation.

    I did, of course, mean mux.

    It's only Redchiz who gets YouView from his mum :-)
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 2 February 2017, 11:12AM
    Tom Barry said:

    Rang Humax again, spoke to a different operator and he told me that the box is faulty. As my first Humax box went back with a very noisy hard disk (we thought to was birds in the garden) that's a 100% failure rate. Enough said!

    More exactly, that's a 100% failure rate for you.

    But I hope, if you are going to persevere - and no one could blame you if you didn't - that you will get a replacement box from Humax themselves, as if your first one was rapidly replaced after purchase with one from the same retailer, you may be suffering from 'bad batch' syndrome.
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • Paul LosebyPaul Loseby Posts: 1Member
    edited 9 April 2017, 12:41PM
    Roy1 said:

    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?

    Fixed:  I too had numerous problems trying to get a sufficient signal for my HD programmes on the YouView box.  I then moved my YV box to the other side of my tv stand and away from the BT router.  They are now about 2ft apart and the signal is brilliant.  I bought a recommended signal booster as well but it didn't make a jot of difference.  Just try separating the box and router.
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,143Member ✭✭✭
    edited 4 April 2017, 4:13PM
    Just spotted this bit of info on the BT forum posted by one of the Admins:
    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,967Member ✭✭✭
    edited 4 April 2017, 4:13PM
    jimb said:

    Just spotted this bit of info on the BT forum posted by one of the Admins:

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    Interesting info jimb, thanks for posting.
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,548Member ✭✭✭
    edited 4 April 2017, 6:38PM
    100% Strength, 100% Quality. Personally, I don't think so, as my previous readings were 74/100.
  • Linda BlanchardLinda Blanchard Posts: 1Member
    edited 4 April 2017, 5:01PM
    Tom Barry said:

    No, they just told me I needed an aerial booster. I had done all the steps with no success anyway.

    I have a red light flashing on my box  they don't even know the reason why normally phone twice to find one who knows how to cure a fault been on phone for 1 hour living alone I have no company so my TV is my ife line in the evenings 
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 4 April 2017, 9:10PM
    Tom Barry said:

    No, they just told me I needed an aerial booster. I had done all the steps with no success anyway.

    Make? Model? ISP? Subscription, ex-subscription, retail? Purchased from? Who are 'they'?
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • Sarah Louise EllisSarah Louise Ellis Posts: 7Member
    edited 5 April 2017, 10:43AM
    100% strength and quality (Hummy DTRT2100) here also. I doubt it, despite the relay transmitter being just a mile away. My Plaza HD-T2 doesn't achieve this.
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Posts: 136Member
    edited 6 April 2017, 8:03AM
    Roy1 said:

    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?

    Going to try this thanks. I have 100% strength/quality on next gen but have been plagued with this for a while. Always seemed to be the mux with Sky News/Dave strangely and power cycle always fixed for a least a few days. On next gen seems to include ITV HD now as well grrrr
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Posts: 136Member
    edited 9 April 2017, 12:38PM
    Roy1 said:

    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?

    Sounds crazy but separating the hub and PVR has worked for me so far :-O
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 9 April 2017, 1:52PM
    Roy1 said:

    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?

    Not so crazy - we know that plasma TVs, Philips mood lights, and so on, can discomfort YouView boxes, and so might the radiation from the router, driving all the wifi in the house.
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Posts: 136Member
    edited 9 April 2017, 2:03PM
    Roy1 said:

    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?

    So it would seem. But only breaking up channels for me on C53 (730.0MHz)? Madness! :-D

    What other 'discomfort' has been reported as a result of environmental factors?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 9 April 2017, 3:04PM
    Roy1 said:

    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?

    http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/de...

    See the three issues at bottom
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Posts: 136Member
    edited 9 April 2017, 3:14PM
    Roy1 said:

    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?

    Ah the old infrared thing. Yeah i remember years ago having to change a light bulb due to that. At least there was a more scientific reason at play which i could understand :-)
  • RoyRoy Posts: 15,249Member ✭✭✭
    edited 10 April 2017, 4:54PM
    Roy1 said:

    There are about 3 million YouView boxes out there, Tom, and most of them work fine.

    The problem you report is not unknown though, and there are a series of steps to work through when it happens.

    https://support.youview.com/youview-b...

    Did YouView tech support take you through those steps?

    If so, what were the results?

    How many YouView designers does it take to change a light bulb?

    Three
    one to remove the old perfectly serviceable incandescent bulb on its bayonet fitting,;
    one to change the fitting to the new ES Edison Screw type;
    and one to take the new bulb and screw it up completely, thus making those illumined by the ecobulb incandescent instead :-)
    This might at last be getting back to the YouView that I knew.  :|
    Holding my breath....
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,143Member ✭✭✭
    edited 19 April 2017, 6:05PM
    Looks like Visionman and Sarah Louise Ellis were correct.

    Again from the BT forum:
    "...Also, signal strengths now showing correctly as the initial software had messed that up."

    From https://community.bt.com/t5/YouView-Boxes/Get-ready-for-your-brand-new-BT-TV-experience/td-p/1722437...
    Messages 603(!!!), 605 and 608.
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