HATE, HATE, HATE this 27.46.0 update

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Comments

  • Simon DaviesSimon Davies Member Posts: 2
    edited 6 May 2017, 6:46PM

    I have 2 BT DTR-2100 boxes. For reasons I don't understand, one has had the horrible new software installed via OTA update and the other hasn't.


    Does anyone know .... Is there any way I can stop the second box getting the update when it's turn comes around?


    Echoing other comments, I hate the new layout. The old one was not only virtually perfect imo, but it also won a great reputation in the press and industry for being so. Why change, why?!?

    Unfortunately the 2nd box updated itself in the mean time. :/

    Youview ... Please let those of us that were happy go back to the old software!

    I bought the boxes on the basis of that software, so to force such a huge update on us is wrong. When Microsoft tried to force upgrade people to Windows 10 there was a huge backlash and this feels similar. It's not a small incremental update, it's fundamentally changed the entire experience. For me it's basically a consumer law issue ... the boxes were sold under one feature set and now have been totally changed.

    Very unhappy that a big company like Youview can force its own paying customers to make do with a inferior UI that we have originally purchased.

    It's another one of those situations where the consumer is powerless and just has to accept the outcome!
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,714 ✭✭✭
    edited 3 May 2017, 11:37PM

    I have 2 BT DTR-2100 boxes. For reasons I don't understand, one has had the horrible new software installed via OTA update and the other hasn't.


    Does anyone know .... Is there any way I can stop the second box getting the update when it's turn comes around?


    Echoing other comments, I hate the new layout. The old one was not only virtually perfect imo, but it also won a great reputation in the press and industry for being so. Why change, why?!?

    "They thought we would act like sheep; we did, we left in droves"
    ‘For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like’
  • Elizabeth5Elizabeth5 Member Posts: 1
    edited 6 May 2017, 6:39PM
    Sanj said:

    Hi Valw,

    Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We've been listening to everything our customers have been saying, good and bad and feeding it back to our teams internally. 

    I just wanted to reassure you that we are committed to continually improving YouView. Our Support and Communications Manager, Phil has already responded to the feedback on MyTV and I want to re-iterate that MyTV is a top priority for us and we're working to bring improvements to this area. As soon as there is an update we'll post on the forum.

    In the meantime, there are a few of things that may help you to navigate around MyTV:

    Order
    Currently your recorded programmes by the latest recorded. They read from left to right. With the most recent recording on the left hand side.

    Navigating
    You can quickly skip through pages of recording using the programme up and down buttons.

    Navigating
    You can quickly skip through pages of recording using the programme up and down buttons.

    hmmm... no - it's not quick when you've got a lot of episodes in a series. Surely it's normal to watch them in chronological order??? 
    I thought I'd get used to this new interface, but I'm just finding it more and more irritating.
    Until you improve the functionality I'd suggest reinstating the option to roll back to the old interface...
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    The term "Nextgen" implies a 'generational' update i. e. a major enhancement to functionality. However, in my opinion, an already poorly designed but adequately functioning user interface has been taken 10 steps backwards in functionality. Since the earliest trials I, and many others, have been campaigning for REDUCED button pushes to improve the efficiency of the interface - 5 years worth of pleas. In a masterstroke of continuing poor design, with the introduction of Nextgen YouView have managed to successfully INCREASE button presses, whilst removing other functionality and adding little or no additional functionality other than pictures, which replace the previous useful text information.

    What the box actually DOES is excellent. The user interface is, and always has been, a poorly designed inefficient system from the point of view of button presses. To have gone through a redesign and made that worse is a masterstroke. It is the equivalent of putting two fingers up to ALL requests for improvement from many users who have spent considerable time giving feedback over the past 5 years. I repost a post of mine from over 4 years ago below.

    "I have posted elsewhere, that I would prefer to watch the earliest programme first, where programmes are rolled-up. A very simple way of achieving this would be to treat the list of rolled-up recordings as a wrap-around list. Then, from the main programme name, the DOWN button would move to the latest, and the UP button to the earliest. One button to get to whatever you want. I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to select a programme in the middle of the list, but if they did, then they would have to press more times.

    This would reduce the number of key-presses to a single press, as against potentially 2 or more, depending on how a colour key order swap was implemented. A sensible way to implement this would be to press the colour key, and then the programmes were sorted appropriately AND the cursor is left on the top programme in the list - allowing OK to just play it. Not, sort the list and then have to DOWN button to arrive at the top of the list i.e. 2 keypresses. (I know I bang on about reducing key presses ... but I think paying attention to this would add tremendously to the ease of use of YV ...)

    All-in-all, I would favour the UP/DOWN button solution - simple - obvious - don't have to find the colour button (the fingers go automatically to the UP/DOWN buttons as they are used so much.)"

    And another forum member - also 4 years ago....

    "Now having used the folders on the new software for about a week, I think there should be a option to select the earliest programme first.
    The reason is I often record a whole series before watching this means I have to scrolls down 10 to 15 episodes to the first programme to start watching
    I know this may not suite every one, but may be there could be a option in the setting to select either earliest or latest recording first. "

    Indeed Nextgen requires an even greater number of key presses in this process now than it did then! The refusal by YouView to implement sensible suggestions continuously requested over a period of 5 years leaves me with absolutely no confidence that they will ever listen to requests from the user base on this forum.
  • MrMcgMrMcg Member Posts: 105
    edited 16 April 2017, 12:08AM

    The term "Nextgen" implies a 'generational' update i. e. a major enhancement to functionality. However, in my opinion, an already poorly designed but adequately functioning user interface has been taken 10 steps backwards in functionality. Since the earliest trials I, and many others, have been campaigning for REDUCED button pushes to improve the efficiency of the interface - 5 years worth of pleas. In a masterstroke of continuing poor design, with the introduction of Nextgen YouView have managed to successfully INCREASE button presses, whilst removing other functionality and adding little or no additional functionality other than pictures, which replace the previous useful text information.

    What the box actually DOES is excellent. The user interface is, and always has been, a poorly designed inefficient system from the point of view of button presses. To have gone through a redesign and made that worse is a masterstroke. It is the equivalent of putting two fingers up to ALL requests for improvement from many users who have spent considerable time giving feedback over the past 5 years. I repost a post of mine from over 4 years ago below.

    "I have posted elsewhere, that I would prefer to watch the earliest programme first, where programmes are rolled-up. A very simple way of achieving this would be to treat the list of rolled-up recordings as a wrap-around list. Then, from the main programme name, the DOWN button would move to the latest, and the UP button to the earliest. One button to get to whatever you want. I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to select a programme in the middle of the list, but if they did, then they would have to press more times.

    This would reduce the number of key-presses to a single press, as against potentially 2 or more, depending on how a colour key order swap was implemented. A sensible way to implement this would be to press the colour key, and then the programmes were sorted appropriately AND the cursor is left on the top programme in the list - allowing OK to just play it. Not, sort the list and then have to DOWN button to arrive at the top of the list i.e. 2 keypresses. (I know I bang on about reducing key presses ... but I think paying attention to this would add tremendously to the ease of use of YV ...)

    All-in-all, I would favour the UP/DOWN button solution - simple - obvious - don't have to find the colour button (the fingers go automatically to the UP/DOWN buttons as they are used so much.)"

    And another forum member - also 4 years ago....

    "Now having used the folders on the new software for about a week, I think there should be a option to select the earliest programme first.
    The reason is I often record a whole series before watching this means I have to scrolls down 10 to 15 episodes to the first programme to start watching
    I know this may not suite every one, but may be there could be a option in the setting to select either earliest or latest recording first. "

    Indeed Nextgen requires an even greater number of key presses in this process now than it did then! The refusal by YouView to implement sensible suggestions continuously requested over a period of 5 years leaves me with absolutely no confidence that they will ever listen to requests from the user base on this forum.

    That'll be why they have introduced logging of button presses - so that future updates which reduce the number of button presses are hailed as a major improvement!
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,103 ✭✭✭
    edited 16 April 2017, 12:56AM
    Churchwarden>
    "What the box actually DOES is excellent. The user interface is, and always has been, a poorly designed inefficient system from the point of view of button presses."
    It actually has the least key presses of any box on the market today. And that is a fact.
    Despite all its faults, NextGen is here to stay and so are the tiles, and both will be improved.

    They have relaunched themselves, from the ground up, CW, with an initial compartmentalised version, which at launch has many features missing. But in time will return.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 16 April 2017, 12:56AM

    The term "Nextgen" implies a 'generational' update i. e. a major enhancement to functionality. However, in my opinion, an already poorly designed but adequately functioning user interface has been taken 10 steps backwards in functionality. Since the earliest trials I, and many others, have been campaigning for REDUCED button pushes to improve the efficiency of the interface - 5 years worth of pleas. In a masterstroke of continuing poor design, with the introduction of Nextgen YouView have managed to successfully INCREASE button presses, whilst removing other functionality and adding little or no additional functionality other than pictures, which replace the previous useful text information.

    What the box actually DOES is excellent. The user interface is, and always has been, a poorly designed inefficient system from the point of view of button presses. To have gone through a redesign and made that worse is a masterstroke. It is the equivalent of putting two fingers up to ALL requests for improvement from many users who have spent considerable time giving feedback over the past 5 years. I repost a post of mine from over 4 years ago below.

    "I have posted elsewhere, that I would prefer to watch the earliest programme first, where programmes are rolled-up. A very simple way of achieving this would be to treat the list of rolled-up recordings as a wrap-around list. Then, from the main programme name, the DOWN button would move to the latest, and the UP button to the earliest. One button to get to whatever you want. I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to select a programme in the middle of the list, but if they did, then they would have to press more times.

    This would reduce the number of key-presses to a single press, as against potentially 2 or more, depending on how a colour key order swap was implemented. A sensible way to implement this would be to press the colour key, and then the programmes were sorted appropriately AND the cursor is left on the top programme in the list - allowing OK to just play it. Not, sort the list and then have to DOWN button to arrive at the top of the list i.e. 2 keypresses. (I know I bang on about reducing key presses ... but I think paying attention to this would add tremendously to the ease of use of YV ...)

    All-in-all, I would favour the UP/DOWN button solution - simple - obvious - don't have to find the colour button (the fingers go automatically to the UP/DOWN buttons as they are used so much.)"

    And another forum member - also 4 years ago....

    "Now having used the folders on the new software for about a week, I think there should be a option to select the earliest programme first.
    The reason is I often record a whole series before watching this means I have to scrolls down 10 to 15 episodes to the first programme to start watching
    I know this may not suite every one, but may be there could be a option in the setting to select either earliest or latest recording first. "

    Indeed Nextgen requires an even greater number of key presses in this process now than it did then! The refusal by YouView to implement sensible suggestions continuously requested over a period of 5 years leaves me with absolutely no confidence that they will ever listen to requests from the user base on this forum.

    TL;DR
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 6 May 2017, 6:50PM
    Interesting, Visionman. You obviously have an inside track - possibly a visit to YouView headquarters? - given your advocacy of Nextgen and predictions for the future.

    When I was a triallist I had a naked 8 year old Humax box. The user interface for that was way more efficient in terms of keypresses than the 'new' (as it was then) YouView box. Presumably the Humax UI has become vastly more inefficient since then - don't know as I've only got the YouView box ATM. However it DID have favourites, you COULD re-order channels, and apart from it having less functionality than YouView it was an excellent offering.

    In my opinion it is no argument justifying an incredibly ill-thought-out design implementation by comparing it with other boxes and thensaying it is better. It doesn't make the bad design/implementation of the YouView interface good or even acceptable in this day and age - it is still a poor implementation which damages the perception of what is otherwise an excellent box technically.

    And whilst I hear promises of improvement, past experience does not encourage me to hold my breath.

    I accept that the original implementation used the wrong platform making change/enhancement difficult - hence NextGen. But the way in which the rewrite was implemented, missing so many golden opportunities to provide features people have been requesting for many years, - and removing existing functionality - leaves me in doubt whether YouView have the desire or ability to implement a good interface to really let the system excel - as it should - and could. Their first attempt does not fill me with excitement....

    Only time will tell.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,103 ✭✭✭
    edited 16 April 2017, 4:36AM

    Interesting, Visionman. You obviously have an inside track - possibly a visit to YouView headquarters? - given your advocacy of Nextgen and predictions for the future.

    When I was a triallist I had a naked 8 year old Humax box. The user interface for that was way more efficient in terms of keypresses than the 'new' (as it was then) YouView box. Presumably the Humax UI has become vastly more inefficient since then - don't know as I've only got the YouView box ATM. However it DID have favourites, you COULD re-order channels, and apart from it having less functionality than YouView it was an excellent offering.

    In my opinion it is no argument justifying an incredibly ill-thought-out design implementation by comparing it with other boxes and thensaying it is better. It doesn't make the bad design/implementation of the YouView interface good or even acceptable in this day and age - it is still a poor implementation which damages the perception of what is otherwise an excellent box technically.

    And whilst I hear promises of improvement, past experience does not encourage me to hold my breath.

    I accept that the original implementation used the wrong platform making change/enhancement difficult - hence NextGen. But the way in which the rewrite was implemented, missing so many golden opportunities to provide features people have been requesting for many years, - and removing existing functionality - leaves me in doubt whether YouView have the desire or ability to implement a good interface to really let the system excel - as it should - and could. Their first attempt does not fill me with excitement....

    Only time will tell.

    I fully accept everything you are saying, Alpha Beta to Alpha like. 
    Unlike you I wasn't here in the early days and can only imagine that they were indeed exciting times. Sadly let down. This one won't.
    But rather than me talking my usual steadfast garbage, only time will prove that one.
    Total respect CW, as always...  <tips hat>
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,714 ✭✭✭
    edited 17 April 2017, 11:38AM

    Interesting, Visionman. You obviously have an inside track - possibly a visit to YouView headquarters? - given your advocacy of Nextgen and predictions for the future.

    When I was a triallist I had a naked 8 year old Humax box. The user interface for that was way more efficient in terms of keypresses than the 'new' (as it was then) YouView box. Presumably the Humax UI has become vastly more inefficient since then - don't know as I've only got the YouView box ATM. However it DID have favourites, you COULD re-order channels, and apart from it having less functionality than YouView it was an excellent offering.

    In my opinion it is no argument justifying an incredibly ill-thought-out design implementation by comparing it with other boxes and thensaying it is better. It doesn't make the bad design/implementation of the YouView interface good or even acceptable in this day and age - it is still a poor implementation which damages the perception of what is otherwise an excellent box technically.

    And whilst I hear promises of improvement, past experience does not encourage me to hold my breath.

    I accept that the original implementation used the wrong platform making change/enhancement difficult - hence NextGen. But the way in which the rewrite was implemented, missing so many golden opportunities to provide features people have been requesting for many years, - and removing existing functionality - leaves me in doubt whether YouView have the desire or ability to implement a good interface to really let the system excel - as it should - and could. Their first attempt does not fill me with excitement....

    Only time will tell.

    Hi CW

    'Wrong platform' doesn't quite describe it :-(

    At the time you were testing, there was no 'right platform', as YouView were so far ahead of the field they were having to build what they needed from scratch - or at least from a decidedly non-optimised kit of parts.

    Now there is a right platform, so to speak, and YouView have bravely scrapped much of what went before in favour of it.

    But in general, such a rewrite should be a 'lift and shift' - don't bring in any new functionality, maybe even make an initial core release as a proof of concept, with many functions stripped away, to be added back later.

    Which is what YouView have done, but with a couple of serious flaws; firstly the major changes to the UI, and secondly not making the release optional at this stage.

    The latter would have been incredibly easy, technically, though I am not at liberty to tell you how :-(

    Regarding the former, though, I imagine the YouView Dev teams at first happily planning to port the lists functionality as was.

    But YouView's shareholders, gathering in a room to enquire on progress, and where all this money and resources were going, were shown some slides of the tiles UI that YouView were planning to add later - much later.

    And the shareholders saying 'So this is what it is going to look like on release?' with the implication that it damn well should.

    And an uncomfortable silence filling the room.....

    So here we are.

    This is all pure speculation on my part, you understand; I don't have an 'inside track' that tells me what did or didn't happen.

    All I can say is that if the YouView Devs were planning on tiles from the get-go then, to me, either NextGen as it is now is a bridge too far, or it is a bridge too early :-(

    But as regards the outstanding items on Keith's lists from the last five years, I would not expect any of them to have been implemented at this stage.

    With all else there is to get done, YouView have no option but to continue to ignore them for now.

    Only when NextGen matches CurrentGen for functionality will YouView be able to properly continue ignoring them, if it so chooses :-)
    ‘For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like’
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 6 May 2017, 6:52PM

    Interesting, Visionman. You obviously have an inside track - possibly a visit to YouView headquarters? - given your advocacy of Nextgen and predictions for the future.

    When I was a triallist I had a naked 8 year old Humax box. The user interface for that was way more efficient in terms of keypresses than the 'new' (as it was then) YouView box. Presumably the Humax UI has become vastly more inefficient since then - don't know as I've only got the YouView box ATM. However it DID have favourites, you COULD re-order channels, and apart from it having less functionality than YouView it was an excellent offering.

    In my opinion it is no argument justifying an incredibly ill-thought-out design implementation by comparing it with other boxes and thensaying it is better. It doesn't make the bad design/implementation of the YouView interface good or even acceptable in this day and age - it is still a poor implementation which damages the perception of what is otherwise an excellent box technically.

    And whilst I hear promises of improvement, past experience does not encourage me to hold my breath.

    I accept that the original implementation used the wrong platform making change/enhancement difficult - hence NextGen. But the way in which the rewrite was implemented, missing so many golden opportunities to provide features people have been requesting for many years, - and removing existing functionality - leaves me in doubt whether YouView have the desire or ability to implement a good interface to really let the system excel - as it should - and could. Their first attempt does not fill me with excitement....

    Only time will tell.

    Whilst, as usual, you have graced us with wise words, Roy, I don't totally agree. As someone who has designed and written systems, I know that Nextgen could just as easily been coded to land on the earliest rather than latest recording in a folder - or, much simpler, land on the most recent but allow a wrap-around to go to the oldest with one key press. Incredibly simple to implement in a rewrite without major changes to existing functionality but huge benefits in terms of ease of use.

    The fact that a heavily used part of the UI was not enhanced in this simple and easy to implement way suggests the focus of the design lacks considerations making the UI more user-friendly. This defines a mind-set - one which has become clear over many years. Mindsets has been VERY difficult to change.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,714 ✭✭✭
    edited 17 April 2017, 11:38AM

    Interesting, Visionman. You obviously have an inside track - possibly a visit to YouView headquarters? - given your advocacy of Nextgen and predictions for the future.

    When I was a triallist I had a naked 8 year old Humax box. The user interface for that was way more efficient in terms of keypresses than the 'new' (as it was then) YouView box. Presumably the Humax UI has become vastly more inefficient since then - don't know as I've only got the YouView box ATM. However it DID have favourites, you COULD re-order channels, and apart from it having less functionality than YouView it was an excellent offering.

    In my opinion it is no argument justifying an incredibly ill-thought-out design implementation by comparing it with other boxes and thensaying it is better. It doesn't make the bad design/implementation of the YouView interface good or even acceptable in this day and age - it is still a poor implementation which damages the perception of what is otherwise an excellent box technically.

    And whilst I hear promises of improvement, past experience does not encourage me to hold my breath.

    I accept that the original implementation used the wrong platform making change/enhancement difficult - hence NextGen. But the way in which the rewrite was implemented, missing so many golden opportunities to provide features people have been requesting for many years, - and removing existing functionality - leaves me in doubt whether YouView have the desire or ability to implement a good interface to really let the system excel - as it should - and could. Their first attempt does not fill me with excitement....

    Only time will tell.

    You are quite right about the Series landing point howler, but I see nothing too sinister there - probably person A not talking to person B, and then the release having to go out with indecent haste.

    And you might well deduce from Keith's' zero-day summation of the release that there were a good few other things worth fixing before it went out, so it really needed a whole extra development cycle.

    And we all know what that 'one little fix', made out of band, might do to an imminent release :-(
    ‘For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like’
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,103 ✭✭✭
    edited 17 April 2017, 11:38AM
    Churchwarden>
    "I know that Nextgen could just as easily been coded to land on the earliest rather than latest recording in a folder - or, much simpler, land on the most recent but allow a wrap-around to go to the oldest with one key press. Incredibly simple to implement in a rewrite without major changes to existing functionality but huge benefits in terms of ease of use." 

    Indeed so. None of NextGens menus or features have a wrap-around nature which as you say is a bad failing, and I agree with you.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
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