Community champion?

DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM in Feedback
Roy made some excellent points on new people and how they may post in the wrong place even if the post is not relevant to the posts prior too it over on the get satisfaction support forum.

Apparently a community champion has tools to move these posts to there own post string.

With the amount of new members joining since next gen launched and the amount of traffic increasing to the forum surely the forum would be better organised if you recruit some more community champions.

Keith at the end of the day can't do this alone because of the massive increase in traffic and he would certainly struggle to be on the forum 24/7. Surely now is the time to make a change.

https://getsatisfaction.com/getsatisf...
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Comments

  • CegCeg Member Posts: 184
    edited 1 May 2017, 9:33AM
    I'm sure it's on their tile, and they will do it as soon as possible!
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 April 2017, 12:24AM
    The tiles are staying Ceg.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • CegCeg Member Posts: 184
    edited 1 May 2017, 9:33AM
    Yes I know that's why I agreed, writing a tile of people who can help with the forum. It makes sense, everyone else is using tiles.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    Something worth pointing out is that the official response on the GetSat forum is incomplete and hence wrong. Champion status alone does not enable moderation or management of a GetSat forum. So making more champions would not provide additional people to manage the forum. Champion status broadly means:
    • providing the person a champion badge (next to their name on the forum) and halo/border around their avatar
    • potentially constrain the way in which that person interacts with the forum, i.e. one must consider more carefully what one writes, the tone one uses and the image you present
    The first of these is of limited value to people and the second is what would typically impact on some of the other long standing and helpful members of the community such that they may prefer not to be a champion and thus continue to maintain their strong voice and style.

    In general YouView do the moderation and management of the forum, and this is ably done by Sanj and Phil. That YouView expect and do manage the forum is a good thing and I would not want to see them step back and leave it to the members to run as the official voice and presence is key.

    There is a status (for non-employees) above champion and that is even more rare. A champion can be granted a management seat which gives more access to additional features. YouView have placed significant trust in me by granting me that access. The primary original reason for granting me that access was to work around limitations of the GetSat system and allow me to maintain the consolidated lists (i.e. to be able to edit my own posts when others can only edit their own posts until someone else follows on or likes it). A management seat does provide access to some moderation tools but that is not the primary reason I have been given this privilege and hence not something I use in general (although I will do occasionally when there is a clear action and it is outside of times that YouView staff might get to it quickly).

    Forking replies or comments on other topics can be a good way to start a new topic when someone is really posting in the wrong place. It is a crude feature (as implemented by GetSat) though so all one is doing is forking out a post to start a topic. As such it is not a tool that allows for significant tidying and management, e.g. one could not shuffle around large numbers of posts between the various next gen feedback topics in the hope of getting people to where they would ideally be and thus improve the order of the forum. Given the limitations of the fork feature it is almost never used on this forum.

    Ultimately as I've noted elsewhere there is general agreement that the GetSat system is sub-optimal (for the needs of this community), particularly when the forum is busy or has a large number of new users, and the likely best longer term solution will be a switch to another forum system. I would not expect that to happen any time soon though and would expect to see the issue with next gen addressed first.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 April 2017, 10:33AM
    Keith1 said:

    Something worth pointing out is that the official response on the GetSat forum is incomplete and hence wrong. Champion status alone does not enable moderation or management of a GetSat forum. So making more champions would not provide additional people to manage the forum. Champion status broadly means:

    • providing the person a champion badge (next to their name on the forum) and halo/border around their avatar
    • potentially constrain the way in which that person interacts with the forum, i.e. one must consider more carefully what one writes, the tone one uses and the image you present
    The first of these is of limited value to people and the second is what would typically impact on some of the other long standing and helpful members of the community such that they may prefer not to be a champion and thus continue to maintain their strong voice and style.

    In general YouView do the moderation and management of the forum, and this is ably done by Sanj and Phil. That YouView expect and do manage the forum is a good thing and I would not want to see them step back and leave it to the members to run as the official voice and presence is key.

    There is a status (for non-employees) above champion and that is even more rare. A champion can be granted a management seat which gives more access to additional features. YouView have placed significant trust in me by granting me that access. The primary original reason for granting me that access was to work around limitations of the GetSat system and allow me to maintain the consolidated lists (i.e. to be able to edit my own posts when others can only edit their own posts until someone else follows on or likes it). A management seat does provide access to some moderation tools but that is not the primary reason I have been given this privilege and hence not something I use in general (although I will do occasionally when there is a clear action and it is outside of times that YouView staff might get to it quickly).

    Forking replies or comments on other topics can be a good way to start a new topic when someone is really posting in the wrong place. It is a crude feature (as implemented by GetSat) though so all one is doing is forking out a post to start a topic. As such it is not a tool that allows for significant tidying and management, e.g. one could not shuffle around large numbers of posts between the various next gen feedback topics in the hope of getting people to where they would ideally be and thus improve the order of the forum. Given the limitations of the fork feature it is almost never used on this forum.

    Ultimately as I've noted elsewhere there is general agreement that the GetSat system is sub-optimal (for the needs of this community), particularly when the forum is busy or has a large number of new users, and the likely best longer term solution will be a switch to another forum system. I would not expect that to happen any time soon though and would expect to see the issue with next gen addressed first.
    There are two people who would be ideal for a position on this site such as yourself but whether youview want any more champions with the power you have and whether they even want to do it is another matter.
  • SanjSanj Member Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 18 April 2017, 2:50PM
    Roy makes a good point. The forum has become quite cluttered with the increase of posts. It's difficult to keep track of a conversation when it is somewhat fragmented.

    Keith is a great Champion for us and in many ways is difficult to live up to. We will be considering potential champions but aren't ready to make that decision just yet. 

    We'd also like to give more of our time to the community to help keep the forum in shape and will be looking to improve on this in the near future. 
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 9:31AM
    I agree that the forum has become a bit messy recently, but the reason is fairly obvious. I am not sure that adding possibly contentious moderation activity into this heady mix would be particularly productive. On balance I prefer things as they are, but would certainly be open to the possibility of moving to a different forum platform if this could demonstrably improve the structure of discussion.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    3 months or so on and nothing has changed has youview decided more champions are unnecessary? I personally still think that Keith as great as he is certainly deserves back up especially at the weekend when youview staff are at there homes. But of course I'm just one person who has a opinion on this as I am sure others probably have a different perspective on this.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 10:10AM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    I appreciate what you are saying but it's more the weekend that's a issue. If you have a issue Sarah obviously doesn't work Saturday or Sunday.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 10:26AM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    And what do you think Keith could solve (with his Champion extra powers, not his ordinary remarkable abilities, of course) that could not wait until Monday?
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 11:06AM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    Removal of posts
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 11:12AM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    That would really calm things down at weekends wouldn't it: "where's my post gone?" Arf!
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 11:12AM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    That would really calm things down at weekends wouldn't it: "where's my post gone?" Arf!
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 11:37AM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    That would really calm things down at weekends wouldn't it: "Where's my post gone?" Arf!
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 11:37AM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    I don't know if Keith can, or would, do that anyway
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 11:48AM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    I'm sure he can but just don't want to do it.
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 1:10PM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    As redchiz notes, just because a post could be removed, it does not necessarily mean that is going to be helpful in calming any discussion. For spam and junk it is clear cut, for most other posts it can be more subtle as to when is there a robust discussion or frustration coming out and when is the post entirely inappropriate. Overall the less posts removed, and the more self regulation that occurs, the better.

    One might also wish to consider if others were champions then they would most likely be expected to moderate the robustness of their engagement on occasions and that may be to the detriment of the community in the longer term.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 1:45PM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    So just out of curiosity three things can you as a champion actually remove other peoples posts, when you became a champion where you asked to be careful with what you post and lastly if you can remove others posts is this something you have chosen not to do?
  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 2:51PM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    you may find this thread useful
    https://community.youview.com/youview/topics/youviews_first_champion
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 7:00PM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    It is perhaps worth noting several points:
    • the GetSat platform (and similar) are put in place  by companies (in part) to drive peer to peer conversation and support and thus reduce the burden on the company. In part that also equates to letting the users self regulate rather than offer extensive moderation or others to do so around the clock.
    • champion status provides no privileged access at all, it is just a badge/title
    • to perform any moderator type functions (delete posts, edit posts, change categories, block users etc) requires a management seat/license. These are normally assigned to employees but on rare occasions can be assigned to a (special) champion.
    From that one might conclude:
    • it is not YouView's intention to appoint champions/none employees to act as moderators and manage the forum in the way the official employees do.
    • it is the intention that YouView can limit their involvement and cost in providing the forum whilst chipping in to keep things on track, provide official info, and occasionally manage users content as moderator actions.
    • I am the only YouView champion currently (although there was another once), and I also have management seat access (which is something that was only granted at a later date for specific and good reason having further developed the level of trust and understanding). I primarily use the privileged access to maintain reference topics, do do some very light out of hours management (e.g. clear spam, remove duplicate topics/posts or correct categories). I do not generally step in to formally moderate conversations and if done in a moderator type way rather than user engagement way would most likely do more harm than good (i.e. would established or very new members (which is mostly where tensions and misunderstandings most often arise) appreciate me appearing to define the law).
    • if one is looking for a highly active company involvement with round the clock moderation of the forum (by them or people they delegate to) then this is probably not the place to find it; if one is looking for open conversation, good support, clever wit, sometimes robust engagement, occasional misunderstandings, and a certain degree of frustration at the pace of change or backward steps, then one may well be in the right place and enjoy sticking around :)
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 6:46PM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    #standingovationsmiley
  • jimbjimb Member, Super User Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 6:53PM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    ditto...

    image
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    You are a good Champion. :)
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 8:08PM
    Roy1 said:

    Daniel, one thing has very much changed.

    We now have Sarah, very capably filling the shoes that Sanj stepped out of upon his well-deserved promotion, and adopting a rather more proactive style than Sanj did so that we now have more visible moderation going on than ever before.

    And now that the flood of complaints from outraged recipients of an unwanted NextGen update has slowed to a trickle of disgruntled murmurings, the forum is anyway almost back to normal.

    So am I to take it most of you prefer there to be little to no moderator activity?
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 11 July 2017, 8:09PM
    Visionman said:

    You are a good Champion. :)

    Can't fault what you are saying there. Over the years Keith has certainly done a great job.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    Not to sound funny but the image I am attaching shows our need for my champions and proves my point of how Keith can't be expected to be everywhere at once. image
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭
    edited 20 July 2017, 10:11AM
    Daniel4 said:

    Not to sound funny but the image I am attaching shows our need for my champions and proves my point of how Keith can't be expected to be everywhere at once. image

    Hi Daniel - the leaderboard stats have limited bearing on what people are doing or reviewing. I'm guessing (perhaps incorrectly) that you are deducing activity from the above and assuming I or others are thus not around. Activity, in the GetSat sense does not take into account when one visits the forum (since logins can persist for a month at a time) nor what is being read and considered. One might thus assume someone is not around when in fact they may be almost omnipresent.

    As noted before though, champions just get a badge and that is that. It is very rare for non employees to be given moderator access on such a forum and if used for active people management (either overtly or covertly) would likely change the nature of their involvement and further limit what they can effectively say as a normal member.

    A different point to wonder might thus really be what sort of forum management is needed and wanted. Those may be the same thing but could equally be different. We have seen some robust engagement between various members of late ranging across fairly new people, long standing regular contributors, and semi-dormant well respected long term members. In such a case would members expect to see moderator actions, i.e. for all one knows some or all of those people may have been reached out to and offered some guidance or equally they may have all been seen to be firm but fair play and left to find their own way. Unless an action is seen as being of urgent need then official engagement from YouView is never that far away and is more likely to be effective. Overly quick action by a non-employee may do more harm than good. One could ask the question if one were a moderator what would one do at a given time, how might such an action then unfold, and would it really just be better for an employee to have taken action at a more considered rate?

    What I think most people around here would really like to see is more evident progress with the YouView system than forum moderation. Positive progress with YouView itself will naturally lead to a more positive and harmonious forum :)
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    I completely agree with Keith. And, Daniel, in all honesty I can see little appetite from anyone else on these forums for what you seem to be suggesting. To coin a phrase used by some in a different context without in any way meaning to stir things up: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  :)
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,548 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 September 2017, 9:07PM
    It is well worth remembering that the Leaderboard weights the quantity of posts much more heavily than the quality of them :-)
    Supporting YouView on Sony TVs is like nailing jelly to a herd of cats
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