The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe... I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-
I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:
"So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.
This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.
You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."
If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.
That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers. [End of copied bit]
Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.
Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.
To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it. The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.
We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️
Hi Spargo - some short answers to each of your points:
The USB sockets provide limited functionality for normal usage. There is no way to attach an external drive and export/import recordings (although it has been requested and is item 36 in the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests). In principle a software update/fix can be applied via USB but in practice they are not made available in this way. You can connect an external keyboard via the USB socket which is useful if your remote fails or you have some accessibility needs which mean such a USB connected device is helpful. You can use the USB socket to power or charge other devices. Other than charging you could thus attach a wifi bridge to power it via USB and then connect it to the wired ethernet socket and hence provide a wireless network connection (subject to issues around multicast and hence IPTV channels).
Series link entries are kept by the box for 13 weeks after it last saw an episode transmitted. They, however, are only exposed to the user when an episode is to be transmitted within the next week. As such it is good for bridging gaps in series (or sporting series such as F1 say) but managing such entries is difficult. It has been suggested before that those dormant entries should be exposed to the user so they can be managed if needed but it is in practice a niche need and not one YouView have delivered.
The tiles present an image relevant to the programme so for many series each episode picture is different. Personally I see limited value in the pictures in terms of helping me to identify the recordings. The new grid of tiles MyTV listing shows 12 entries compared to the old list view which showed 8, so technically a page in MyTV now gives you a view on more entries than the old page on MyView. Titles are sadly more truncated on the tiles than they were on the lists and for many who have fed back on this forum they find a grid of info on a busy image led background more difficult to use than a list of a clean neutral background. To me the obvious answer is an option to toggle between a grid and list view. YouView have acknowledged such feedback but by no means said they will implement such an option. In terms of internet speed, in general the recommendation for using a YouView box is a minimum speed of 3.5Mbps and preferably a little higher than that. Prior to the next gen release YouView may have summed up their position as 'the box is intended for use with a network connection of sufficient speed but without that it is still a good PVR' whereas now that position would tend to shift to 'the box expects to run with a network connection of sufficient speed, can be run without such a connection for short periods, but would not be recommended as a product for those with slower network speeds or no plans to network the device'.
A place to find out more about what a YouView box can do might be the main support site http://support.youview.com or use the Help App that is available in the players and apps section on the box. Another approach is to find out what it cannot do by taking a look at the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests(from which you can also see some of what has been implemented based on user feedback), and also the consolidated list of updates and changes (from which you can see in reverse chronological order how YouView has developed over the last 5 years).
See 3
Strictly speaking your question is more general than the current latest release but to fork it to its own thread now would then effectively lose the responses others have already given and the one I now give here. Hopefully my points above are helpful to you, and possibly to others should they find them within this more specific latest release topic
The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe... I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-
I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:
"So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.
This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.
You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."
If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.
That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers. [End of copied bit]
Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.
Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.
To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it. The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.
We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️
Keith, thank you for your reply, it clears up a lot of points and suspicions. In my opinion whilst the T2000 is/will be good for its basic purpose of recording programmes and providing online TV, this forum has made me appreciate more and more the Panasonic PVR which I also have.
The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe... I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-
I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:
"So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.
This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.
You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."
If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.
That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers. [End of copied bit]
Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.
Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.
To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it. The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.
We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️
Hi Keith. Thanks. What a practical entry for this forum. I presume you are just a helpful respondent who has no connection with YouView, as I've yet to see any rational response from their 'Ivory Towers' :-)
This thread is about - [Discussion of] Humax retail software update 27.50.0...
I'm sadly not actually seeing much discussion about it... And I'm not the police, either.
I have 27.50. Too many comments on this forum, faffing on about the technicalities of how the forum should operate, instead of seeing the bigger picture of YouView management failure. Are YouView management hung-over from the 27.50 upgrade celebrations, or away on holiday? They are certainly not dealing with a major failure of an upgrade (27.50).
My comment on 27.50. It is ****!! No sense in making any intelligent comment about 27.50 failures & suggested solutions. Until I see a press release - I don't see YopuView management taking any interest in their customers. I have noted that this upgrade began rolling out some time ago and there still has been no YouView management response, so I shan't hold my breath.
The reason why YouView management still have not many any visible attempts to make their software intuitive to use is simply that they are not responsible to anyone. If I was in their shoes I would also feel I could ignore the people using YouView as who can their organisation or salaries? That's correct. No one.
I still wish YouView management every success and hope they receive Knighthoods for services to PVR programming, for producing a PVR User Interface, which customers worship.
It is actually a significant step forward in making YV 2.0 more user friendly and is the first step in doing so. And it works. That they launched in this state? Don't shout at me, I'm just a user.
I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...
@matthew off topic posts have a risk of been removed or forked off to a different thread by community management when there in on Monday visionman by reminding people it's a 27.50.0 thread is trying to save community management the trouble of having to do it. I have reported your posts as thread spoiling is borderline trolling.
The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe... I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-
I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:
"So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.
This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.
You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."
If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.
That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers. [End of copied bit]
Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.
Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.
To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it. The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.
We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️
Hi Sandy - I think you have just remarked that you have just left, but for completeness I'll reply.
I am a YouView user like nearly everyone else on this forum. I was involved with the pre-launch trials back in summer 2012 where I gave my feedback about the short comings then. Feedback within those trials was a little disorganised and uncoordinated and another trialist Juwlz posted a list of suggested improvements. I picked that up and extended it to create a list, linking to the reference topics, of about 40+ suggestions for improvement at that stage. YouView then launched and with it they planned a public forum. They ask me to be the first non-YouView person in and to seed the forum with a handful of initial topics. I held back from recreating the improvements list on the public forum to allow space for things to evolve naturally. However, it soon became apparent that it would benefit for some coordination again so I stepped in and started the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests. That proved popular and rapidly grew to about 100 suggestions for improvement. I held off at that point on a bugs list as I expected most issues would be clear and dealt with quickly. That proved not to be the case so along came the consolidated list of bugs and faults. Throughout this my aim was to help people find the information, provide my input and to support people and YouView in improving the system. The forum system has a concept of champions and YouView asked me to be their first champion in late 2012. Although I hold that honorific I remain entirely independent of YouView and maintain my own independent views. I (and some other key forum members) do have other routes for engagement with YouView, and despite the apparent lack of action on some user feedback, we do engage with them to put across the customer view and encourage them to do better. In such engagements I take a broad view and aim to represent all reasonable feedback regardless of whether it would benefit me or not. Having created those two consolidated lists I now also maintain the consolidated list of updates and changes which aims to give people a one stop shop to see the evolution (or not) of YouView. Lastly/most recently, when next gen launched I posted my impressions of the summary of it and others feedback on day one as a simple reference/tracker of what has changed and what needs work (although I might have thought more would have been tackled by now)
Matthew, if you have 27.50 please free to talk about it...
Hi Daniel. I appreciate that you are attempting to ensure persons posting remain focused on a narrow definition relating to THE 27.50.
But, I think you, and especially YouView management, who presumably/hopefully use this forum, appreciate that the issues surrounding the YouView upgrade are far greater than simple the 27.50 programming.
YouView is used by real people for pleasure and do not want to be bothered by any nerdy programming issues. They require an intuitive User Interface.
Keep up the good work you are doing elsewhere, but please understand how people who have paid a lot of money for one or more YouView devices, have now had it made less user friendly by the 27.50 upgrade and are showing their frustrations in various formats.
It is actually a significant step forward in making YV 2.0 more user friendly and is the first step in doing so. And it works. That they launched in this state? Don't shout at me, I'm just a user.
I hope the 'don't shout at me' comment was not directed at me. Nothing I state is directed at anyone personally - only at the issues raised.
I was pointing out the state of the upgrade as ****, which is a valid definition from my standpoint.
It is a significant update programming wise. It is a retrograde step User Interface for YouView users - just read the comments on this forum.
What makes this forum pretty useless is that there is no involvement by YouView management, which is why I stated in an earlier post that I shall bale out from this forum tomorrow.
It is actually a significant step forward in making YV 2.0 more user friendly and is the first step in doing so. And it works. That they launched in this state? Don't shout at me, I'm just a user.
Sandy, YouView do most assuredly follow these boards and even comment from time to time, as they did in particular with some of the key issues users identified as problematic with My TV, which this very update has addressed. So there is some indication that they will respond to reasoned, constructive criticism. How you expect them to respond to feedback which consists of the single word " ****" however is beyond me.
The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe... I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-
I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:
"So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.
This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.
You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."
If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.
That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers. [End of copied bit]
Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.
Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.
To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it. The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.
We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️
Hi Keith. Thanks again for the info. I intend leaving the forum tomorrow, after seeing some feedback. It is pointless me attempting to spend time producing detailed reasons why changes should be made to 27.50, when YouView management are not interested. Unless they produce a press release, confessing some failures, they are not going to feel any need to produce a speedy correction.
It must be annoying for some to see the resulting fallout from the 27.50 upgrade, after all the work put in to helping produce it.
It probably is the case that, long term, YouView will be a better product using HTML stuff, but in no way does it excuse the shambles of the current User Interface.
Until YouView management are responsible to anyone, they will not feel any pressure to produce a good YouView, User Interface.
Thanks for all you efforts - I appreciate the amount of work that you have undertsake in helping YouView.
It is actually a significant step forward in making YV 2.0 more user friendly and is the first step in doing so. And it works. That they launched in this state? Don't shout at me, I'm just a user.
Hi Redchiz.
I have given details elsewhere of the areas where I think improvements could be made to the current 27.50.
The term **** was and is a valid description for the current YouView, User Interface. I understand from a post on this forum today that YouView do watch this forum. In that case, when they see a forum user stating that their User Interface is ****, they can ask for a more detailed report of how improvements can be made to the User Interface.
Simple. It's called communication. But I shall be leaving this forum tomorrow. It is the first time I have taken to this medium and I don't see it as very productive.
It is actually a significant step forward in making YV 2.0 more user friendly and is the first step in doing so. And it works. That they launched in this state? Don't shout at me, I'm just a user.
You have deep knowledge. Far deeper than you have chosen to reveal here. I'm done with this conversation.
I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
It is actually a significant step forward in making YV 2.0 more user friendly and is the first step in doing so. And it works. That they launched in this state? Don't shout at me, I'm just a user.
Right, so you think the best way to engage YouView in dialogue is by calling their product " ****" and expecting them to respond with a request for more details? Have you had much luck with that approach elsewhere?
I thank churchwarden (above) for providing a detailed history of communications with YouView by some long-standing contributors, which I appreciate. From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc. We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us. If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up. PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"... YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine. The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
Scott> "Nice improvement. Keep em coming :-) I especially like the definition between each tile now. Also shows there is promise behind the faster rollout of improvements." I've been amazed at how quickly they have got this out which is certainly proof its no YV 1.0.
The removal of the big tile and making all others the same size and equidistant from one another has certainly helped. The effect of which now includes wider tiles with a fuller description. And being dropped onto the oldest and first episode on a series record is a godsend. Its still not perfect but its a start.
Congratulations, MrMcg - I think you have just reached a new nadir in sensible comment on this forum.
And I think you know you have :-(
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
Scott> "Nice improvement. Keep em coming :-) I especially like the definition between each tile now. Also shows there is promise behind the faster rollout of improvements." I've been amazed at how quickly they have got this out which is certainly proof its no YV 1.0.
The removal of the big tile and making all others the same size and equidistant from one another has certainly helped. The effect of which now includes wider tiles with a fuller description. And being dropped onto the oldest and first episode on a series record is a godsend. Its still not perfect but its a start.
Congratulations, MrMcg - I think you have just reached a new nadir in sensible comment on this forum.
And I think you know you have :-(
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
I thank churchwarden (above) for providing a detailed history of communications with YouView by some long-standing contributors, which I appreciate. From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc. We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us. If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up. PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"... YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine. The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
"...reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service..." That's the first time this has been suggested as far as I'm aware. What a great idea.
I thank churchwarden (above) for providing a detailed history of communications with YouView by some long-standing contributors, which I appreciate. From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc. We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us. If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up. PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"... YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine. The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
That's like cutting your nose off to spite your face of course if you have channels you are not using that's different however there is no point on cutting off a channel or channels you want and use.
Robbo> "The icons are all very pretty, I can live with them but prefer the previous simple listing of recordings. What is totally **** is that with internet channels we can no longer start a recording at a specific point. I have a 5 hour recording of British Superbikes, I know what time a certain race is due in the recording, can I jump forward 3 hours like I used to be able to do, not now I can't."
There are comments like yours littered across the internet with all agreeing, including me. Whilst the return of this feature hasn't been confirmed for slotting yet, it has been fed back so YouView know do about it. And our common theme? We're all sport watchers and funnily enough, none of they minded the tiles, either.
LOL. But I am sure you must have had Flash updates on a PC or laptop, no? As it is, or was, a fairly universal way of rendering graphics and videos in YouTube and the like, when the HTMLavailable for web page coding did not have the graphical smarts that were needed for things like the that.
But Steve Jobs took against it, as Flash was was a constant security risk and Adobe were forever rushing out new patched versions, only for yet more security flaws to be found in those. And HTML grew the new version 5, which does have the required armoury of facilities for rendering video.
When the YouView code was first written, it was ground-breaking, and there just wasn't a set of established tools to do what YouView wanted, hence the cobbled-together Dev environment, with Flash at its heart, that CurrentGen is written in.
But now the consensus on the direction that dev environments like YouView's should go in is pretty clear, and it's HTML 5.
So YouView have bravely torn up the old way of working, and done the ground-up reimplementation in HTML 5 that is NextGen.
And, as a somewhat separate issue, torn up the old text-based interface for the new graphical one.
We can debate whether YouView should have released NextGen when it was incomplete, most especially given that people had no choice in when they adopted it - it was pushed on them.
We can also debate whether the graphical interface should have been implement as a replacement for, instead of an adjunct to, the existing text-based UI.
We can puzzle over why Youview's previous skill in providing sensible, if meandering, pathways for doing the things you want to get done with the product seems to have utterly deserted them.
We can even debate the timing of the release of NextGen, right over Xmas for the first set of TalkTalk users.
But we should recognise that HTML 5 is the way to go, and congratulate YouView on its bold rethink in going for it, while nevertheless castigating the way they have gone about it.
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
I thank churchwarden (above) for providing a detailed history of communications with YouView by some long-standing contributors, which I appreciate. From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc. We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us. If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up. PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"... YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine. The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
Absolutely. Now all we need to do is identify a loss of service.
I thank churchwarden (above) for providing a detailed history of communications with YouView by some long-standing contributors, which I appreciate. From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc. We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us. If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up. PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"... YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine. The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
Thanks Grassmarket for your comments above. A couple of points that perhaps I didn't put strongly enough, and are worth repeating.
You say that you "admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds". In fact I left the forum for about a couple of years, only 'coming out of hibernation' every 3-4 months to clock what was happening. I'm back more regularly now because things have changed.
The lack of response, historically, from YouView had a LOT to do with the fact that making any changes to the system written using the original software was fraught.
I have seen a speedy response to some of the recent complaints, suggesting that this problem is behind us with the advent of Nextgen. In addition, whilst little information is forthcoming about future developments (as with any other platform out there) there are signs that YouView ARE listening and responding, albeit in a small way at the moment.
As you put it, I AM optimistic. The platform has always been extremely good functionally, but iffy in the design of the UI, and some areas of functionality. I feel a page has turned, and am happy to encourage the YouView team to continue improving the UI by contributing my views.
Only time will tell whether I'm right or sadly delusional. Until that becomes clear, I'll stay with it. If the situation reverts to the previous 'status quo', then I'll quietly return to hibernation.
Ranting, in-fighting, threats, bickering and quarrels are pointless activities which achieve nothing, and become quite tedious for everybody. They certainly won't persuade YouView to make changes we want.
I haven't got this very latest Humax update as yet, but there is one feature I find problematical and doesn't look as if it's been addressed. When I go to delete a tile, it comes up with the dialogue to confirm but doesn't actually confirm which programme instance I am about to delete (except where I am deleting a series of recordings, it seems). I'm always just a bit worried that I may be about to delete the wrong item and so it would be useful if the delete confirmation dialogue did also confirm what programme I was just about to delete.
I do like the new Youview user interface overall.
I have a retail DTR1000. Attempting a manual update shows nothing available.
I thank churchwarden (above) for providing a detailed history of communications with YouView by some long-standing contributors, which I appreciate. From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc. We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us. If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up. PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"... YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine. The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
Daniel & redchiz I think grassmarket was referring to the basic subscription (18 month) not extra channels.
The following remark was supposed to be a separate 'Reply' - not a 'Comment' (sorry, Matthew). Bit new to all this forum stuff, I'm glad to say - hope I never get to thousands of points. Pints, maybe... I would like to be tidy & delete the comment above, but it won't let me, for some reason. So here it is again-
I'm copying part of a response from Roy (to me in an earlier thread) as it is quite important & revealing:
"So the currently missing features have to be rewritten in HTML 5 before they can be added; they can't be just dropped in, as they are in the incompatible Flash implementation of CurrentGen.
This may help explain the current reduction in functionality of NextGen; rather than wait until the rewrite was complete, Youzview and its ISP partners BT and TT elected to release it in its current state.
You may have a view about the desirability of that, or otherwise, but that is what has happened."
If Roy is correct, then YouView consciously decided to remove a fully functional PVR setup from its users, in favour of a new but significantly incomplete platform. They did so - knowing that many useful features were still missing from the rewrite & would take them some considerable time to reinstate. They knew that they were trashing a perfectly good PVR.
That is an unacceptable way to treat your customers. [End of copied bit]
Also... I stand by my 'trashed' remark, despite some objections above. These PVRs are designed to cope with large recording volumes - why else would they have such a huge capacity? But essential PVR tools to manage such volumes have now disappeared, making recordings impossible to find/delete. I'd call that trashing it. Judging by BT's phone call to me earlier today, to progress my official complaint - they don't disagree either.
Further evidence of trashing can be found in the lack of fast forwarding (see Robbo's post above). A PVR with capacity to record an all-day event, but only crawl through it at 30x speed (BBC iPlayer is 256x max) is not worth having - it's trashed. Many other people (here & on BT forums) have highlighted other important features & even accessibility issues that have effectively trashed it for them. It is: trashed.
To those who brightly say: 'let's give them a chance' - I admire your dogged positivity, but I don't share it. The bald fact is: NextGen in incomplete & so does not work as a PVR. YouView should withdraw it until they've provided at least as good PVR functionality as the previous version. If they physically can't do this, they need to issue a comprehensive & honest statement acknowledging what has happened, what is missing & how/when they will put it right. The latest 27.5 announcement is just papering over the cracks. Tiles or no tiles, big or small ones - I don't care; it just needs to work.
We are not testers - we are customers. I am a human being ☹️
Sandy (if you are still here)
You seem to be talking about 27.50.0 as if that is what NextGen is.
Perhaps this explains all the confusion and bewilderment, on the part both of the established members and the new members about all that posting in the 27.44.0 thread when you actually have 27.46.0 and so on?
The point being that each is a release of NextGen with various fixes, changes, additions, etc.
But to say that it's pointless to make any changes to 27.50.0, or that 27.50.0 is a backward step, is to misunderstand what 27.50.0 is. It is an upgraded release of NextGen.
So there will never be any 'changes to it' because any changes to NextGen will result in 27.51.0, or higher.
And to say anything negative about 27.50.0 is not the same as saying anything negative about NextGen; the implication of saying something negative about 27.50.0 is that we should go back to 27.47.0 (e.g. if somebody wanted the one big tile back, say).
So it's confusing,
I also fail to see how you can say YouView aren't listening. It's possible, I suppose, that YouView redesigned the tile layout independently of any feedback from this forum, but I doubt that is the case.
Though if you think YouView aren't listening because 27.50.0 hasn't gone back to a list view, then again you would be wrong, because a change like that, if it were ever made, would never be in an incremental upgrade like 27.50.0
But while I think 27.50.0 is an advance, I've actually been surprised at its very positive reception, which I predicted it would not have; the few crumbs it contains, falling from YouView's table, are manna to the starving it seems, who are, after all, content, or resigned, to wait for the rest of the loaf instead of demanding it all right now.
As redchiz would say, who knew? :-)
‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
I thank churchwarden (above) for providing a detailed history of communications with YouView by some long-standing contributors, which I appreciate. From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc. We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us. If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up. PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"... YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine. The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
And I was referring to the alleged "loss of service," which is not in fact the case, you know how irony gets lost in cold text.
I thank churchwarden (above) for providing a detailed history of communications with YouView by some long-standing contributors, which I appreciate. From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc. We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us. If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up. PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"... YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine. The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
Comments
- The USB sockets provide limited functionality for normal usage. There is no way to attach an external drive and export/import recordings (although it has been requested and is item 36 in the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests). In principle a software update/fix can be applied via USB but in practice they are not made available in this way. You can connect an external keyboard via the USB socket which is useful if your remote fails or you have some accessibility needs which mean such a USB connected device is helpful. You can use the USB socket to power or charge other devices. Other than charging you could thus attach a wifi bridge to power it via USB and then connect it to the wired ethernet socket and hence provide a wireless network connection (subject to issues around multicast and hence IPTV channels).
- Series link entries are kept by the box for 13 weeks after it last saw an episode transmitted. They, however, are only exposed to the user when an episode is to be transmitted within the next week. As such it is good for bridging gaps in series (or sporting series such as F1 say) but managing such entries is difficult. It has been suggested before that those dormant entries should be exposed to the user so they can be managed if needed but it is in practice a niche need and not one YouView have delivered.
- The tiles present an image relevant to the programme so for many series each episode picture is different. Personally I see limited value in the pictures in terms of helping me to identify the recordings. The new grid of tiles MyTV listing shows 12 entries compared to the old list view which showed 8, so technically a page in MyTV now gives you a view on more entries than the old page on MyView. Titles are sadly more truncated on the tiles than they were on the lists and for many who have fed back on this forum they find a grid of info on a busy image led background more difficult to use than a list of a clean neutral background. To me the obvious answer is an option to toggle between a grid and list view. YouView have acknowledged such feedback but by no means said they will implement such an option. In terms of internet speed, in general the recommendation for using a YouView box is a minimum speed of 3.5Mbps and preferably a little higher than that. Prior to the next gen release YouView may have summed up their position as 'the box is intended for use with a network connection of sufficient speed but without that it is still a good PVR' whereas now that position would tend to shift to 'the box expects to run with a network connection of sufficient speed, can be run without such a connection for short periods, but would not be recommended as a product for those with slower network speeds or no plans to network the device'.
- A place to find out more about what a YouView box can do might be the main support site http://support.youview.com or use the Help App that is available in the players and apps section on the box. Another approach is to find out what it cannot do by taking a look at the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests (from which you can also see some of what has been implemented based on user feedback), and also the consolidated list of updates and changes (from which you can see in reverse chronological order how YouView has developed over the last 5 years).
- See 3
Strictly speaking your question is more general than the current latest release but to fork it to its own thread now would then effectively lose the responses others have already given and the one I now give here. Hopefully my points above are helpful to you, and possibly to others should they find them within this more specific latest release topicToo many comments on this forum, faffing on about the technicalities of how the forum should operate, instead of seeing the bigger picture of YouView management failure.
Are YouView management hung-over from the 27.50 upgrade celebrations, or away on holiday? They are certainly not dealing with a major failure of an upgrade (27.50).
My comment on 27.50. It is ****!!
No sense in making any intelligent comment about 27.50 failures & suggested solutions. Until I see a press release - I don't see YopuView management taking any interest in their customers.
I have noted that this upgrade began rolling out some time ago and there still has been no YouView management response, so I shan't hold my breath.
The reason why YouView management still have not many any visible attempts to make their software intuitive to use is simply that they are not responsible to anyone. If I was in their shoes I would also feel I could ignore the people using YouView as who can their organisation or salaries? That's correct. No one.
I still wish YouView management every success and hope they receive Knighthoods for services to PVR programming, for producing a PVR User Interface, which customers worship.
I think I should disengage from it now and get-a-life as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIPxlFzDi0&list=RDnrIPxlFzDi0
Thanks to all those who have made my brief foray into a forum 'interesting'.
Byeee
It is actually a significant step forward in making YV 2.0 more user friendly and is the first step in doing so. And it works. That they launched in this state? Don't shout at me, I'm just a user.
I am a YouView user like nearly everyone else on this forum. I was involved with the pre-launch trials back in summer 2012 where I gave my feedback about the short comings then. Feedback within those trials was a little disorganised and uncoordinated and another trialist Juwlz posted a list of suggested improvements. I picked that up and extended it to create a list, linking to the reference topics, of about 40+ suggestions for improvement at that stage. YouView then launched and with it they planned a public forum. They ask me to be the first non-YouView person in and to seed the forum with a handful of initial topics. I held back from recreating the improvements list on the public forum to allow space for things to evolve naturally. However, it soon became apparent that it would benefit for some coordination again so I stepped in and started the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests. That proved popular and rapidly grew to about 100 suggestions for improvement. I held off at that point on a bugs list as I expected most issues would be clear and dealt with quickly. That proved not to be the case so along came the consolidated list of bugs and faults. Throughout this my aim was to help people find the information, provide my input and to support people and YouView in improving the system. The forum system has a concept of champions and YouView asked me to be their first champion in late 2012. Although I hold that honorific I remain entirely independent of YouView and maintain my own independent views. I (and some other key forum members) do have other routes for engagement with YouView, and despite the apparent lack of action on some user feedback, we do engage with them to put across the customer view and encourage them to do better. In such engagements I take a broad view and aim to represent all reasonable feedback regardless of whether it would benefit me or not. Having created those two consolidated lists I now also maintain the consolidated list of updates and changes which aims to give people a one stop shop to see the evolution (or not) of YouView. Lastly/most recently, when next gen launched I posted my impressions of the summary of it and others feedback on day one as a simple reference/tracker of what has changed and what needs work (although I might have thought more would have been tackled by now)
But, I think you, and especially YouView management, who presumably/hopefully use this forum, appreciate that the issues surrounding the YouView upgrade are far greater than simple the 27.50 programming.
YouView is used by real people for pleasure and do not want to be bothered by any nerdy programming issues. They require an intuitive User Interface.
Keep up the good work you are doing elsewhere, but please understand how people who have paid a lot of money for one or more YouView devices, have now had it made less user friendly by the 27.50 upgrade and are showing their frustrations in various formats.
I was pointing out the state of the upgrade as ****, which is a valid definition from my standpoint.
It is a significant update programming wise.
It is a retrograde step User Interface for YouView users - just read the comments on this forum.
What makes this forum pretty useless is that there is no involvement by YouView management, which is why I stated in an earlier post that I shall bale out from this forum tomorrow.
I intend leaving the forum tomorrow, after seeing some feedback. It is pointless me attempting to spend time producing detailed reasons why changes should be made to 27.50, when YouView management are not interested. Unless they produce a press release, confessing some failures, they are not going to feel any need to produce a speedy correction.
It must be annoying for some to see the resulting fallout from the 27.50 upgrade, after all the work put in to helping produce it.
It probably is the case that, long term, YouView will be a better product using HTML stuff, but in no way does it excuse the shambles of the current User Interface.
Until YouView management are responsible to anyone, they will not feel any pressure to produce a good YouView, User Interface.
Thanks for all you efforts - I appreciate the amount of work that you have undertsake in helping YouView.
I have given details elsewhere of the areas where I think improvements could be made to the current 27.50.
The term **** was and is a valid description for the current YouView, User Interface.
I understand from a post on this forum today that YouView do watch this forum. In that case, when they see a forum user stating that their User Interface is ****, they can ask for a more detailed report of how improvements can be made to the User Interface.
Simple. It's called communication. But I shall be leaving this forum tomorrow. It is the first time I have taken to this medium and I don't see it as very productive.
I'm done with this conversation.
From their many years' experience, the conclusion for the rest of us is clear:
We consumers - the millions who just want a decent PVR - should forget this YouView forum & complain instead to our own suppliers: BT, TalkTalk etc.
We are their customers; it's up to them to sort things out with YouView - not us.
If they can't sort it out, they'll have to look for other redress. For example: reduce our TV subscriptions to reflect the loss of service (ie lack of a fully functional PVR) - until YouView catches up.
PVR = Personal Video Recorder - the generic name for these boxes
Others who, understandably, have an ongoing interest in s/w development will no doubt carry on the life of the forum with YouView. Nothing to be gained by us consumers here. If YouView are not listening to these long-standing & long-suffering contributors - they're certainly not going to listen to us!
YouView's lack of interest in all their efforts over the years is dismal. YouView clearly aren't listening - or choose not to hear. As CW puts it: "few requests...even acknowledged", "grateful for any crumbs", "5 years with little or no success"...
YouView are just not listening to you all, are they?
YouView's failure to come up with any official response to all the bad feedback on this & many other forums did amaze me. But now I see it just reflects the experience of these long-standing contributors over many years.
I'm just a customer. I'm not interested in a dialogue with YouView - certainly not a one-sided one. I'm a consumer whose purchase has been damaged by an incomplete upgrade. YouView clearly knew it was incomplete - but chose to go ahead anyway (presumably for commercial reasons, which are none of my concern). They did so with no regard for the impact on customers.
Churchwarden says YouView's aim is to 'future-proof' the system by moving to new software. That may well be true, but again: it's none of my concern - nor should it be. What IS my concern is that the PVR I bought is no longer 'fit for purpose' - as defined by the 2015 Consumer Rights Act. The old software might have caused problems for YouView behind the scenes - but for the customer, IT WORKED. (sorry about the capitals, my 'bold' disappeared!) The new PVR platform should never have been implemented until it could do what the old one did - at the very least.
Ideally YouView should now withdraw the upgrade until complete but, if this is impossible, they must make redress. My own contract is with BT, so I'll seek redress that way; YouView is BT's problem, not mine.
The 27.5 release (as described in YouView's announcement) appears to be just superficial changes to calm the masses - a sort of technological Prozac.
I totally agree with CW that sniping among forum members is pointless - probably makes YouView even less likely to pay attention (if that were possible...!). As said before, I admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds, but I don't share that view. Sorry.
And I think you know you have :-(
And I think you know you have :-(
That's the first time this has been suggested as far as I'm aware.
What a great idea.
But Steve Jobs took against it, as Flash was was a constant security risk and Adobe were forever rushing out new patched versions, only for yet more security flaws to be found in those. And HTML grew the new version 5, which does have the required armoury of facilities for rendering video.
When the YouView code was first written, it was ground-breaking, and there just wasn't a set of established tools to do what YouView wanted, hence the cobbled-together Dev environment, with Flash at its heart, that CurrentGen is written in.
But now the consensus on the direction that dev environments like YouView's should go in is pretty clear, and it's HTML 5.
So YouView have bravely torn up the old way of working, and done the ground-up reimplementation in HTML 5 that is NextGen.
And, as a somewhat separate issue, torn up the old text-based interface for the new graphical one.
We can debate whether YouView should have released NextGen when it was incomplete, most especially given that people had no choice in when they adopted it - it was pushed on them.
We can also debate whether the graphical interface should have been implement as a replacement for, instead of an adjunct to, the existing text-based UI.
We can puzzle over why Youview's previous skill in providing sensible, if meandering, pathways for doing the things you want to get done with the product seems to have utterly deserted them.
We can even debate the timing of the release of NextGen, right over Xmas for the first set of TalkTalk users.
But we should recognise that HTML 5 is the way to go, and congratulate YouView on its bold rethink in going for it, while nevertheless castigating the way they have gone about it.
You say that you "admire the ability of some contributors to remain positive against all the odds". In fact I left the forum for about a couple of years, only 'coming out of hibernation' every 3-4 months to clock what was happening. I'm back more regularly now because things have changed.
The lack of response, historically, from YouView had a LOT to do with the fact that making any changes to the system written using the original software was fraught.
I have seen a speedy response to some of the recent complaints, suggesting that this problem is behind us with the advent of Nextgen. In addition, whilst little information is forthcoming about future developments (as with any other platform out there) there are signs that YouView ARE listening and responding, albeit in a small way at the moment.
As you put it, I AM optimistic. The platform has always been extremely good functionally, but iffy in the design of the UI, and some areas of functionality. I feel a page has turned, and am happy to encourage the YouView team to continue improving the UI by contributing my views.
Only time will tell whether I'm right or sadly delusional. Until that becomes clear, I'll stay with it. If the situation reverts to the previous 'status quo', then I'll quietly return to hibernation.
Ranting, in-fighting, threats, bickering and quarrels are pointless activities which achieve nothing, and become quite tedious for everybody. They certainly won't persuade YouView to make changes we want.
You seem to be talking about 27.50.0 as if that is what NextGen is.
Perhaps this explains all the confusion and bewilderment, on the part both of the established members and the new members about all that posting in the 27.44.0 thread when you actually have 27.46.0 and so on?
The point being that each is a release of NextGen with various fixes, changes, additions, etc.
But to say that it's pointless to make any changes to 27.50.0, or that 27.50.0 is a backward step, is to misunderstand what 27.50.0 is. It is an upgraded release of NextGen.
So there will never be any 'changes to it' because any changes to NextGen will result in 27.51.0, or higher.
And to say anything negative about 27.50.0 is not the same as saying anything negative about NextGen; the implication of saying something negative about 27.50.0 is that we should go back to 27.47.0 (e.g. if somebody wanted the one big tile back, say).
So it's confusing,
I also fail to see how you can say YouView aren't listening. It's possible, I suppose, that YouView redesigned the tile layout independently of any feedback from this forum, but I doubt that is the case.
Though if you think YouView aren't listening because 27.50.0 hasn't gone back to a list view, then again you would be wrong, because a change like that, if it were ever made, would never be in an incremental upgrade like 27.50.0
But while I think 27.50.0 is an advance, I've actually been surprised at its very positive reception, which I predicted it would not have; the few crumbs it contains, falling from YouView's table, are manna to the starving it seems, who are, after all, content, or resigned, to wait for the rest of the loaf instead of demanding it all right now.
As redchiz would say, who knew? :-)