Forum feedback on MyTV in Next Gen software

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  • NodrogNodrog Member Posts: 1
    edited 5 May 2017, 8:56PM

    I'd like to suggest a small and simple change to when you delete a programme. The tiles aren't too bad but when you go to delete a programme the relevant tile only has a thin white line round it and it's not very clear. You press delete (I have the confirm option selected) and it says "do want to delete this programme" without saying what it is. At which point you can't confirm you've picked the right programme.

    But I noticed that when I had 2 episodes of a programme recorded and went to delete them (it was Supervet), it then said "do you want to delete the 2 episodes of Supervet?". It actually gave the programme name.

    So obviously the ability already exists. Could Youview please just incorporate the programme name in the normal delete operation? Just makes things easier. Thanks

  • Liz210Liz210 Member Posts: 10
    edited 8 May 2017, 4:58PM
    You have to be careful not to delete all the episodes as it is easy to miss the message asking you if you want to, as this never happened before so I tend to just delete without noticing this message.  Also there doesn't seem to be an indication if the recording is in HD or not, before you were asked if you wanted to record HD and there was a different symbol.  Overall the new system is rubbish and I WANT THE LISTS BACK!!!
  • GrundersGrunders Member Posts: 131
    edited 7 May 2017, 10:08AM
    Keith1 said:

    Having had the MyTV layout update for a few days now I thought I would look at my recordings and see how the bigger tiles have benefited me in practice. In the original MyTV layout each tile could show about 15 characters of a programme title whereas the revised layout supports about 20. For completeness (and reference further down) I shall note that the old gen listings allowed for about 35 characters to be shown of the title.

    At the moment I have 25 distinct tiles (either individual programmes or series) and across those 25 tiles only 6 have truncated titles now, so approximately 25% of titles suffering some truncation. The 20 characters of text is arguably adequate for me to understand what each one is even though some are truncated.

    One thing that is (slightly) annoying (which is not strictly a YouVIew issue but is one that could easily coded to workaround with a one line filter in the code to strip it) is the 'New: ' prefix that some/many programmes have in the title data. That is consuming 5 precious characters, which at about 25% of the title space is arguably too wasteful. Across my 25 tiles 14 of then have the title prefix 'New: '! This is of no value to me and I would prefer it to be stripped off/removed. Doing this though (apart from making me feel happier) would only actually add 2 more tiles to the total of tiles that then fit on the whole title (and as it happens all the other 'news' are on ones that fit already).

    So in practical terms, on my limited set of current tiles, the change is largely sufficient to improve my ability to see the majority of titles sufficiently.

    This did though make me wonder if one looked at a wider set of titles what one might see. A quick scrape of some web listings, passed through some command line tools and out popped a list of programme title lengths and a couple of plots:

    image
    image
    A key point to note is that the listings I used to scrape from do not include the wasteful 'New: ' prefix!

    From the above one could note:

    • A 35 character limit means almost all titles are fully shown; without any 'New: ' prefixes it covers about 95% of titles and even if everything has a 5 character prefix then it still copes with about 90% of titles in full
    • When one drops down to 20 characters then these figures fall to 72% and 55%; so if you have a lot of 'New: ' prefixes you are could be rapidly descending towards half the tiles having truncated titles
    • When one drops to 15 characters (as it was before the recent update) then it falls to 55% and 23%
    From that one might conclude that the 15 character limit was thus very prone to potential truncation and hence the need for ones mind to extrapolate to fill in the gap. This change has the potential to significantly improve things such that many more titles should be displayed in full, and for those that are not one has a bit more data for the mind to work with to subconsciously extend and complete the title. Overall though the old gen 35 character limit is the most complete and well tailored to show all such titles (although arguably in a listing as in old gen many lines have lots of space and one cannot perhaps help but suggest that space be better used such as by adding a column for duration:) ). 

    Given the new tiles are larger they are thus actually taller and one could argue this extra vertical space lends itself to coding for the ability to wrap a title onto two lines if it exceeds 20 character. Such a line wrap, even allowing for wrapping at word breaks would deliver space broadly equivalent to the old gen 35 character limit. One could even make the case that the vertical space on the tiles could lend itself to several other short facts being shown directly (without any scrolling in to view, e.g. number of (unwatched/total) episodes, average duration) whilst still allowing the images to be seen for those that deduce things from pictures or just like the more colourful presentation.

    The above is of course something I have just very quickly hacked together and YouView should have better easier access to the data in order to be able to run a similar analysis across many weeks worth of programmes, perhaps even weighting it based on what people actually record (assuming the box may be reporting that back) and hence the results could shift somewhat. Nevertheless the above is hopefully still adequately accurate and illustrative :)
    Personally I dont mind the 'New:" prefix because I am fed up of repeats not being distinguishable until you start to waych them.  A typical example (and by no means alone): Mock The Week or 8 out of 10 Cats Does Countdown - both popular programs are regular in new shows but between the new shows (and sometimes spread across sister channels in the case of Ch4/More4 etc) they show repeats from last series or 2 years ago. And the INFO guides (Youview Guide, Radiotimes etc) are pretty useless making it clear.  At least with 'New:' we know whether we would have already seen it before or not.
  • Steven6Steven6 Member Posts: 20
    edited 8 May 2017, 4:58PM
    Why am I only now seeing this?? Could you guys implement some sort of "Sticky" solution? If I read your post earlier, I might not have contemplated suicide. ADOPT Stickies for this forum, it's absolutely essential.

    When you say "...that will be rolled out to your box shortly." Could you be any more specific? I'm asking as I only got this new downgrade (that everyone is complaining about) a few days ago but it is my understanding that you started rolling this out like 4/5 months ago. So am I to expect a similar delay when you finally fix the issues that never should have existed in the first place?
  • Bob1Bob1 Member Posts: 3
    edited 22 August 2017, 9:44AM
    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 
  • Chris A.Chris A. Member Posts: 75
    edited 8 May 2017, 4:59PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    "we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too."  What's good? When the program ends we should be taken back to the episode we have just waatched - and ideally with a 'save/delete?' option -  not the main recording  screen. Now, THAT would be good.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,002 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 4:59PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    And Bob may very well have noticed that this new approach satisfies only the 'watch' side of 'watch and delete', and does not satisfy those who watch things and then keep them anyway, and all the other folk whose habitual practice is not 'watch oldest episode and then delete'.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Chris A.Chris A. Member Posts: 75
    edited 8 May 2017, 4:59PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    Well, one would surely assume that most habitual practices would be to watch the oldest episode? Regardless, post watching any recording , I would appreciate an option to 'delete or keep'. Infinitely more useful than just throwing you back onto the tiled scrapheap.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 5:00PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    The thing is that not every Series is a series if you see what I mean. Roy has cited before the example of Homes under the Hammer where, quite frankly, it doesn't matter what order you watch episodes in. If it was Line of Duty however it would be quite different. Although there you would face the daunting challenge of avoiding spoilers!
  • Chris A.Chris A. Member Posts: 75
    edited 8 May 2017, 1:41PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    .. get that, yes, but, if it doesn't matter what order you watch it in, why would you not just go for the first one to make it easier on yourself??? And regardless, if it takes you back to the one you have just watched, and offers the choice of delete or keep, that's fine. This is turning into rocket science .... and it's not. 
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 1:45PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    I agree that the journey back needs improving. There are a number of variables though which indicate that what one individual regards as "normal" will not be the case for another. And however much people may crave individual options, I am beginning to realise that with so many variables in patterns of usage this is not necessarily as straightforward as it may seem.
  • Bob1Bob1 Member Posts: 3
    edited 19 May 2017, 6:55PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    You can't satisfy all the people....  Selecting the oldest one is surely a big improvement on selecting the newest one. If you want to watch a more recent episode then you can as easily click forward as I used to have to click back.

    One further thing about the pictures in the tiles, is that many episodes of a series can show identical pictures - 24 hours is an example. This demonstrates the uselessness of the picture tiles as a helpful indicator.

    Give us an option for a list and I will be happy.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 2:33PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    Selecting the oldest one is surely a big improvement on selecting the newest one.
    If you mean landing on the oldest one then there is no argument there, I was a proponent of this, along with many others and we like to think that YouView acted on our feedback on this occasion.  :-)
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 9 May 2017, 9:55PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    "we like to think that YouView acted on our feedback on this occasion...."

    even though it did take them 5 years.

    And that raises a very good point.  No doubt there are those who argued at the time, when the majority of us were pleading to go to the earliest recording, that "some people want to go to the most recent...." And that is probably true.  However, any good user interface should cater for the majority usage, albeit providing optional settings, if the interface allows. 

    I suspect, with no evidence other than my own usage, that the majority of people wish to delete a recording they have just watched.  In which case, the most sensible sequence when finishing playing back a recording would be, as I suggested previously, automatically go back to land on the recording just watched, with a dialogue (if more than 90-95% has been watched) "Do you want to delete this recording?" with Yes/No answers.  Those who do not wish to delete the recording move to select "No" and the recording stays. Those who do wish to delete just press OK, and it is gone.

    Of course, the trick is deciding just what is the majority usage. I believe that the YouView box gathers just such information, allowing the YouView team to analyse just such usage.  So I anticipate future UI updates will reflect the majority usage over time. This probably means that we can anticipate the blue YouView button landing us on MyTV, or even better - recordings, in the immediate future. (really....? what planet are you from?)
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 5:02PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    even though it did take them 5 years.
    Er, no, it took them about three months in this specific instance.  :-)
  • churchwardenchurchwarden Member Posts: 795
    edited 8 May 2017, 4:06PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    If you say so, Redchiz.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 4:09PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    Well of course I do, because it's true? Unless you have been secretly testing NextGen for the past 5 years?
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 4:09PM
    Bob1 said:

    It was good to see that the first programme in a series is now selected. We often have many episodes saved and of course we want the first one - we also want to delete it after watching it, so that's good too. 

    Now bring back list view and see the complaints drop off to near zero. 

    Well of course I do, because it's true. Unless you have been secretly testing NextGen for the past 5 years?
  • Trevor6Trevor6 Member Posts: 63
    edited 16 July 2017, 3:15PM
    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,170 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 11:59PM
    Trevor6 said:

    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor

    Sorry, Trevor?
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 7:26PM
    Trevor6 said:

    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor

    I wouldn't, mate.
  • Trevor6Trevor6 Member Posts: 63
    edited 9 May 2017, 5:56AM
    Trevor6 said:

    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor

    we have no response from Youview about the major problems and no major issues have been resolved - or do you disagree ?
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,170 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 10:19PM
    Trevor6 said:

    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor

    I do disagree, and you quite clearly  either don't read the forum or have not received the new update which has been brought about because and purely because of the criticism of it.
    Try post #1 on this thread. Poor.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • Trevor6Trevor6 Member Posts: 63
    edited 9 May 2017, 5:57AM
    Trevor6 said:

    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor

    I have the update and read the forum - I have seen no response from Youview in the last 30 days and the latest update gives minor change not tackling the major issues.

  • Trevor6Trevor6 Member Posts: 63
    edited 8 May 2017, 10:27PM
    Trevor6 said:

    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor

    Sureely Visionman you must agree with that !
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,170 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 10:51PM
    Trevor6 said:

    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor

    I was told not to bother. Wish I'd listened now, as it appears only your opinion is the right one. Live and learn...
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,002 ✭✭✭
    edited 9 May 2017, 6:38AM
    Trevor6 said:

    You can expect no reply, there has been nothing for the last three months at least. Will they fix any issues, experience says no unless it is very minor

    Trevor

    27.50.0 is an unusual sort of update for YouView to make, and it tells me they are listening.

    This was a small, yes, but very focussed, update directed at a particular pain point that had been widely reported.

    I suspect that YouView were both responding to the issue, and testing out their much vaunted, but not before seen, rapid response release mechanism for small improvements.

    But on the rest of your points, 30 days is still a very short timescale for YouView; they are not in the habit of pre-announcing changes; and everything that has been said here is giving them a hard think, of that I am sure.

    Slightly adapting the old programming mantra, 'Fast, Comprehensive - pick one'.

    Both at once ain't gonna happen.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Liz210Liz210 Member Posts: 10
    edited 11 May 2017, 6:02AM

    That, is very favourable, thank you for the update. You see, all people want, is comms! Cheers

    My vision is fine thanks, and I have a big screen!  By blurred I mean it just looks a mess and a hassle to pick out programme as the screen is so "busy" - a list is just so much quicker and clearer to see and navigate.   I generally have maybe 5 pages of programmes to watch ( I know, I am always meaning to watch them) and if I wanted to go to say page 4 it is much slower than scanning a list as before
  • Liz210Liz210 Member Posts: 10
    edited 11 May 2017, 6:02AM

    That, is very favourable, thank you for the update. You see, all people want, is comms! Cheers

    In addition, I do think it is implying that we are children and can't read so have to look at pictures...............
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,002 ✭✭✭
    edited 9 May 2017, 12:49PM

    That, is very favourable, thank you for the update. You see, all people want, is comms! Cheers

    Isn't that exactly what happens when you watch a TV set, though? :-)
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
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