Signal strength

ClintClint Member Posts: 16
edited 6 August 2017, 4:57PM in Support
Hi,
Is it normal for signal strength and quality to be at 100%? I'm asking as I have picture break up periodically

Comments

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 May 2017, 9:54PM
    On NextGen, yes it is. But on CurrentGen, it wouldn't be.

    What software version are you on? How near to your transmitter are you?
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • ClintClint Member Posts: 16
    edited 6 May 2017, 10:32PM
    I'm 22 miles from the Sutton Coldfield transmitter and I'm running software version 27.50.0
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 May 2017, 11:40PM
    OK, so those are expected NextGen figures then.

    On CurrentGen, there was such a thing as 'too high' signal strength - like SHOUTING in the box's lughole, for which a passive attenuator in the aerial cable was sometimes the answer.

    I wonder if the new values ever go over 100, though; if not, we can't detect 'too high' any more.

    Have you by any change got one of those passive Y aerial signal splitters knocking about? Worth putting it in the aerial chain if so, seeing if it affects the numbers, and/or stops the breakup.

    Otherwise, it's punting a few quid on an attenuator from Maplins or similar, to see if it brings any benefits.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Nick7Nick7 Member Posts: 88
    edited 6 August 2017, 4:57PM
    Are you saying that the new software reports stronger signals than the old software? Why is that? Which is more accurate? Cheers..
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 17 May 2017, 8:00AM
    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states
    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(
  • Nick7Nick7 Member Posts: 88
    edited 6 August 2017, 4:57PM
    Thanks for clearing that one up!
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 May 2017, 2:09PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(
    although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements
    You would expect that to be the case, but the scale ends at 100. This is fine for signal quality, which presumably can't be better than 100%, but not for signal strength, which could be higher than the 100% limit of the scale.

    I am not suggesting that is necessarily the case for Clint, but if I had a signal strength reading of 100% and the picture was breaking up, I would try an attenuator as Roy suggested.
  • ClintClint Member Posts: 16
    edited 7 May 2017, 3:19PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(What range should the signal strength be in your opinion then?
    Thanks
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 May 2017, 4:38PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(It should be 100% Quality, but the signal strength is less important, though mine shows 100%.

    Our worry is that on CurrentGen, 60-70% signal strength was comfortable, but above that could give issues.

    And if NextGen is pitched so that, say, what was 65% before is now 100%, but what was 75% before is still shown as 100%, not as 115%, then we have lost our signal overload warning :-(
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭
    edited 7 May 2017, 6:49PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(100% signal strength should be fine, but the only way to find out if your signal strength is not significantly higher than that is to get it below 100%. You can do that with an attenuator.

    Our signal strength reading is around 60% depending on which Mux is in use, but that is with a 12 Ohm attenuator in the line to keep the Topfield happy.
  • ClintClint Member Posts: 16
    edited 8 May 2017, 1:46PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(I just added a 18db attenuator and it took strength down to 90%, would that suggest it was too high or not?
    Thanks
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 1:56PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(Hard to know.

    But if Quality stays at 100% and the break-ups stop, then yes, it would seem so.

    But if Quality has dropped below 100%, and/or the break-ups worsen, then we will need to look for a different explanation,
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 6:24PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(18dB of attenuation would seem to be quite high, but as Roy says, the key thing is whether the picture break-ups have stopped or not.

    I found this on the SatCure site. (http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page15a.htm#uhfatten). It might be of interest:

    When a Freeview receiver detects a signal which is too strong, its automatic gain control (AGC) adjusts the tuner gain down to compensate. If the signal is _way_ too strong, the AGC tries to protect the receiver by overcompensating and turning the gain down much further. The result is often that the signal level display is quite low when the signal is way too high.

    Adding an attenuator reduces the incoming signal, causing the AGC to "relax" and the signal reading will go up!

  • ClintClint Member Posts: 16
    edited 8 May 2017, 7:12PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(It's odd, because at times it appears to help, but other times it doesn't. HD channels appear to suffer the worse. When I was on CurrentGen both quality and strength was STILL at 100%, I'm so confused.
    I've been messing with this for ages now and I've pretty much had enough of it.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 May 2017, 7:37PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(Oh wow, you never said that before, did you? 100% on CurrentGen was way, way too strong.

    What's your Quality now, and are you still getting break-ups?

    You haven't said... :-(
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • ClintClint Member Posts: 16
    edited 8 May 2017, 8:17PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(Sorry, thought I said, my mistake. Quality is still at 100% and yeah sometimes, it has fits of it, I can watch TV and it will be fine, then other times it's breaking up like mad.
    I think I've managed to get strength down to round 50% before now, but I had to attenuator it by a total of 27db, I think it was.
    Is it possible for a signal like that to physically damage the tuner's?
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭
    edited 9 May 2017, 12:22AM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(I would attenuate the signal strength to just below 100% and if the problem persists, look at other possibilities.

    What is your aerial setup?
  • ClintClint Member Posts: 16
    edited 14 May 2017, 7:31PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(Sorry for the delay.
    The aerial on the roof is probably only about 6 years old, it feeds 4 TV's, and the livingroom feed has some kind of box before it (pictured).image
  • Chris_ThatcherChris_Thatcher Member Posts: 194 ✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 7:42PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(Hi Clint,

    That box supplies power to a (so-called) masthead (or distribution) amplifier. There should also be a wall-wart (brick) that plugs into an electricity socket. This, in turn, plugs into that box, which then supplies power to a (in your case) 4 way distribution amplifier.

    Chris. (Lincoln, UK).
  • ClintClint Member Posts: 16
    edited 14 May 2017, 7:46PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(Yes, it is indeed connected to the mains supply.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭
    edited 14 May 2017, 10:19PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(I have a WMA-WPS100/1 in my aerial system, as there is no power in the loft to run the distribution amp up there.

    Everything works just fine.

    I think the WMA is for Wolsey Masthead Amplifier; and apart from being black, is probably just an updated version of yours, which is probably still doing a fine job.

    If you switch it off, your TV service will stop, though, so it's not something you can really test :-(
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • ClintClint Member Posts: 16
    edited 16 May 2017, 8:51PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(Yeah when I unplug it from the power, all TV's loose signal, the problem wouldn't be caused by that though would it?
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭
    edited 16 May 2017, 9:43PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(No
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭
    edited 16 May 2017, 10:56PM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(There might be some sort of intermittent interference to your signal. There's a piece about it on the at800 website here:

    https://at800.tv/guide/possible-cause...
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭
    edited 17 May 2017, 8:00AM
    Keith1 said:

    Hi Nick - there is a post on a similar topic, that in turn refers to a post on the BT forum, that states

    Reporting of signal strength and quality has recently been standardised by the DTG (the UK body that lays down technical requirements and compliance for all DTT receivers).  YouView have implemented this new standard as part of this update, and so the signal-strength reported by your STB may have increased, but will now be comparable with other compliant devices.
    So the issue is one of definition and scale rather than accuracy. The fact this new system seems to be reporting 100% for many people and gives less evident distinction between the actual levels you have perhaps means it is less helpful though (although one should presumably interpret 100% as perfect for the box's requirements) :(Just to amplify (ho ho) that "No", a faulty WPS100 would affect all your TVs equally.. if you see picture breakup on those, it may be worth replacing it.

    If you see it just on the output from the YouView box, then the WPS100 is not the culprit.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
Sign In or Register to comment.