[Issue Resolved] 700MHz clearance - Loss of channels after retuning

SarahSarah Member Posts: 1,812 admin
edited 2 July 2018, 11:05AM in Announcements
As part of the 700MHz clearance, changes to the Rowridge, Crystal Palace & Midhurst main transmitters and relays took place this morning.

If you use one of these main transmitters and haven't retuned yet, you may receive a YVM302 error when trying to view certain channels so we do recommend retuning before you start watching TV today. 

If you have tried retuning a few times and have not been successful or experienced a loss of some channels, please reach out to the Freeview Advice Line on 0808 100 0288 for help (you can also visit freeview.co.uk/tvchanges for support information). 
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Comments

  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭
    personally I am  not impressed with the consultation communication , implementation and support from Digital U.K. and Freeview for the Crystal Palace changes.They could and should have made people aware of the move away from Broadcasting on existing group A frequency to requiring an aerial that would pick up group A and group T.
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, not impressed,
    I've lost all of the COM7 channels from Crystal Palace (CH55). Interestingly, though, I still get all the COM8 channels (CH56) as well as the very low powered London Live local channel without any problem.

    John.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭
     John,
    I believe that the local mux that transmits London Live for Crystal Palace was changed from CH29 today to use the CH35 frequency that the COM8 was previously using, so your aerial was already successfully receiving that frequency albeit at different power levels.
    i assume you have two versions of ITV3 as it seems to being transmitted from two different muxes on Crystal Palace
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 879 ✭✭
    Hi Sarah,
    With regards channel retune we have still lost channels. We have 2 aerials in our home: the loft aerial covers upstairs of home & Tv tuner /Youview now receiving 168+ channels inc BBC News HD 107. Signal from loft is strong: 100% on most channels & BBC News HD varies approx 94% sometimes reduced. Downstairs uses old 30 year+ roof aerial & still not getting BBC News HD 107. Only getting around 140 channels when retuned (again!)
    We watch BBC News HD quite a lot & it is very frustrating. I do hope that we have not got to either purchase a newer roof aerial or I have got a lot of DIY in trying to feed coax cable through the house through floorboards to connect loft aerial (a modern 32 element high gain type0 to downstairs, all because of waht I am reading: 5G Mobile data affecting signal/Com7 multiplex etc. Sarah, I know this is not totally a Youview problem, but can you raise issue & let me know if they are going to improve signal. We get our signal from Crystal Palace. Thank you, John
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • vaningovaningo Member Posts: 1
    We live in North London (Southgate) and lost cbeebies and tinypop completely yesterday. Did a retune yesterday and have lost all but 5 of the HD channels. No answers or solutions anywhere, very poor information and communication. Can we get a clear answer??
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    edited 22 March 2018, 11:49PM
    Hello @John L

    The problem you have with COM7 and COM8 from Crystal Palace is that those two multiplexes have moved to channels 55 and 56. Your old aerial is almost certainy a group A aerial which won't be able to adequately receive the signal.

    You will have to fit a group T aerial which is wideband and will receive all channels from 21 to 60.

    This is not a YouView problem - you need to blame the government for selling off radio spectrum in favour of 5G mobile coverage. Digital UK could have handled the publicity of 700MHz channel clearance better. Many people will be faced with replacing their TV aerials to receive channels 55 and 56 - but these channels will get switched off in 2022 in order to completely clear the 700MHz band, so the channels they carry will have to move somewhere else.

    Best guess for that is that they will move on to the other multiplexes since Ofcom have now relaxed the rules on SD channel quality which will allow more channels to be squeezed on to them.

    Hope this helps

    John
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    @vaningo

    Our posts crossed , but my advice above is the same if your aerial is quite old.

    John.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • SarahSarah Member Posts: 1,812 admin
    Hi @John L
    We recommend calling Freeview regarding this as they will be able to provide the best advice for what to do with your situation. It may be the case that the older aerial will need replacing but they will be able to tell you definitively if this is required or not.

    @vaningo Welcome to the forum.
    Have you tried contacting Freeview about your loss of channels? If you've tried retuning a few times with no success with the channels returning, you should call them as they will be able advise you best in what to do. 

    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • johnnyshankjohnnyshank Member Posts: 83 ✭✭
    Have spoken to Freeview they told me it could take up to 7 days to get all the channels back. They never mentioned about getting a new aerial.
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    @johnnyshank

    It could take considerably longer - in my case I won't get my COM7 channels back until June 6th which is when a local relay transmitter a mile away from me gets its channels reasigned. At the moment that relay is broadcasting the BBCB multiplex on channel 55 which obliterates COM7 channel 55 from the more distant Crystal Palace transmitter.

    Not sure who planned all this, but.........

    John.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • jimbjimb Member, Super User Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭
    Just stumbled upon this article which some might find helpful:
    https://www.a516digital.com/2018/03/londoners-struggle-with-freeview.html
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,267 ✭✭✭
    edited 23 March 2018, 9:27PM
    https://www.a516digital.com/2018/03/londoners-struggle-with-freeview.html

    As part of a Government scheme to clear TV frequencies in preparation for future 5G services, the London TV region became the latest to be affected by changes to Freeview. The changes also affect YouView (BT TV, Plusnet TV, TalkTalk TV) as well as Now TV Smart Box and EE TV users in the region.
    Poor to say the least.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,390 ✭✭✭
    edited 23 March 2018, 10:37PM
    Visionman said:
    https://www.a516digital.com/2018/03/londoners-struggle-with-freeview.html

    As part of a Government scheme to clear TV frequencies in preparation for future 5G services, the London TV region became the latest to be affected by changes to Freeview. The changes also affect YouView (BT TV, Plusnet TV, TalkTalk TV) as well as Now TV Smart Box and EE TV users in the region.
    Poor to say the least.
    Those of us who calmly went round retuning every TV and PVR in the house on 1st March when the changes, which we had been duly warned about, were applied to the Ridge Hill transmitter, without subsequent loss of any services at all, are more than a little bemused by all the fuss here.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,267 ✭✭✭
    The problem appears to be a significant portion of Londoners only have a narrow band aerial. Whereas with this sell-off, a wideband appears to be required.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 March 2018, 12:36AM
    @Roy

    As I said earlier in the thread, Crystal Palace was a Group A transmitter (Channel 21 - 37) and has been all its life. The decision to move COM7 and COM8 to channels 55 and 56 respectively on all transmitters that have them in England, will inevitably lead to reception problems for group A transmitters, since channel 55 and 56 are at the other end of the TV frequency spectrum.

    I would guess that a very large proportion of viewers who are using Crystal Palace will have a group A aerial, and therefore will be unable to receive the higher channels without upgrading to a group T aerial.

    This same sorry mess will occur on June 6th when the Sandy Heath transmitter gets switched over. Sandy Heath is also a group A transmitter, and always has been, and likewise has many users with group A aerials.

    For my sins I have a high gain group T aerial pointing at Crystal Palace, and a Log Periodic (Vision Log36) group T pointing at Sandy Heath, but my Crystal Palace experience has not been a good one since Wednesday for the reasons I gave in another post further up this thread.

    I'm really pleased everything went OK for you when Ridge Hill was converted. Your bemusement, though, bemuses me!

    John.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,267 ✭✭✭
    Aerial group categories and what they will do -
    http://www.aerialsandtv.com/aerials.html
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • GinaGina Member Posts: 1
    I receive my tv signal from Crystal Palace.  I have lost all the channels on my YouView box that were on COM7 and COM8.  I have tried re-tuning several times but the channels are still missing.  I have a smart tv in another room which also lost the channels.  However, I have manually added CH55 and CH56 and the missing channels have all been restored.  This obviously means that my aerial is adequate.  The problem with my YouView box is it cannot be re-tuned manually to restore the channels. 
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 879 ✭✭
    I have just installed a cable to downstairs tv to fix problem. Our downstairs tv had roof aerial that was 30+ year old & couldn't get bbc news HD anymore since last Wed 2st March 2018. It Can NOW!!! (Yep heeee! he says with a releif - but it took a few hours of my time feeding cables through/drilling hole through one roon to another).  If you are lucky to have a loft installation with an aerial with a model 32 element or more design this hopefully will solve your problem. Easy to fit if you are able to, but this situation really is not fair. Consumers should not have to result to upgrading/repairing/alterering their aeriels because of this situation. John
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited 25 March 2018, 4:15PM
    Anaglypta said:
    This same sorry mess will occur on June 6th when the Sandy Heath transmitter gets switched over. Sandy Heath is also a group A transmitter, and always has been, and likewise has many users with group A aerials.
    Sandy Heath has been group K* for quite a while now so hopefully wont be such a problem.

    *Edit: Did you mean Group K?
    Looking again I think Group K might not be quite enough for 55 and 56. I use a wideband but might swap it for a Group T as the YVs aren't great on 21 (All other receivers are fine)

    I do think this is worth reiterating though:
    Anaglypta said:
    but these channels will get switched off in 2022 in order to completely clear the 700MHz band, so the channels they carry will have to move somewhere else.

    As it's almost a certainty!
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,390 ✭✭✭
    Clear as mud, Al

    According to this, Sandy Heath is T now, and will be T after the change.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    The site I was looking at implied that Sandy Heath viewers could currently get away with a Group K aerial.
    So anyone with a Group K aerial might need to replace it with a Group T or W to continue to receive these two muxes.
    Then if these muxes are removed in the next few years these people wont be very happy.
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    @al @Roy You are both quite right, Sandy Heath was always a group A transmitter until digital switchover. It has gone through a number of frequency changes for some MUX's since then and is now classified as group T. By 2020 it will once again be a group A transmitter except for the COM7 and COM8 multiplexes, which will be removed in the final phase of the 700MHz clearance around 2022.

    As Al says, anyone spending money to receive COM7 and COM8 for the short period of time that those MUX's will exist in the 700MHz band, are likely to be unimpressed by the financial outlay with regards to the final outcome.

    As an aside I bought both aerials I have (vision Log 36 and Vision V10-48LF-5P) from AerialsandTv.com. This site has a wealth of information regarding transmitters and reception, and is well worth a look for anyone interested in TV signal propagation.

    John.


    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,390 ✭✭✭
    al said:
    The site I was looking at implied that Sandy Heath viewers could currently get away with a Group K aerial.
    So anyone with a Group K aerial might need to replace it with a Group T or W to continue to receive these two muxes.
    Then if these muxes are removed in the next few years these people wont be very happy.
    The site you were looking at appears to be three or more months ahead of time now - maybe it fell through a wormhole in space/time?  :p

    But how weird that a plan designed to reduce the spectrum allocation for TV seems to need everyone to have an aerial designed for a wider gamut than they might have had before.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • avant_guvnoravant_guvnor Member Posts: 10
    Anaglypta said:
    Hello @John L

    The problem you have with COM7 and COM8 from Crystal Palace is that those two multiplexes have moved to channels 55 and 56. Your old aerial is almost certainy a group A aerial which won't be able to adequately receive the signal.

    You will have to fit a group T aerial which is wideband and will receive all channels from 21 to 60.

    This is not a YouView problem - you need to blame the government for selling off radio spectrum in favour of 5G mobile coverage. Digital UK could have handled the publicity of 700MHz channel clearance better. Many people will be faced with replacing their TV aerials to receive channels 55 and 56 - but these channels will get switched off in 2022 in order to completely clear the 700MHz band, so the channels they carry will have to move somewhere else.

    Best guess for that is that they will move on to the other multiplexes since Ofcom have now relaxed the rules on SD channel quality which will allow more channels to be squeezed on to them.

    Hope this helps

    John

    I too am affected by the loss of the COM7 and COM8 channels and there seems to be much confusion about the resolution.

    Yesterday, Freeview UK stated to me that I would need a wideband aerial to receive the (28 lost) channels. However, it seems this will only work until the final phase of 700MHz clearance in 2022, when the channels get switched off.

    Today, Freeview UK are adamant that no such switch off is occurring and that they have no information from Digital UK that this is happening.

    So can I ask where the information regarding the switch off is coming from and what is the best way to proceed for users affected by the loss of the COM7 and COM 8 channels?
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    edited 28 March 2018, 10:51AM
    @avant_guvnor

    Here's a good place to start

    http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/88879/Digital_UK_response_to_the_maximising_benefits_of_700MHz_clearance.pdf

    The last two paragraphs on page 2 make interesting reading. This document is a couple of years old, however, the removal of COM7 and COM8 have always been on Ofcom's roadmap.

    John.

    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭
    There is also this article from last month
    http://dtg.org.uk/news/news.html?id=6110

  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 862 ✭✭✭
    And here is a link to the Ofcom consultation and responses page for 700MHz clearance.

    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/maximising-benefits-700mhz-clearance?showall=1

    John.

    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • alal Member, Super User Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    avant_guvnor said:
    However, it seems this will only work until the final phase of 700MHz clearance in 2022, when the channels get switched off.
    Although they plan to switch off the two muxes, they haven't really told us what will happen to the channels on the muxes. They could end up with the other channels in the future.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,390 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 March 2018, 7:02AM
    al said:
    avant_guvnor said:
    However, it seems this will only work until the final phase of 700MHz clearance in 2022, when the channels get switched off.
    Although they plan to switch off the two muxes, they haven't really told us what will happen to the channels on the muxes. They could end up with the other channels in the future.
    What they seem to be saying is that until 2022, the best aerial option is a group T wideband one, which will pull in Channels 55 and 56.

    But once the 700Mhz band is cleared, and the muxes on 55 and 56 switched off, the best aerial will be a group K, which goes up to channel 48, and is not likely to be affected by the mobile signals now present on 49 upwards, as a group T aerial might be.

    Clearly, whatever happens, the Freeview channels now on COM7 and COM8 i55 and 56) must be re-accommodated below 48.

    Which both a K and a T aerial will pull in, so no problem there.

    The likelihood is that T aerial owners will be able to get a 700Mhz filter, by analogy with the current 800Mhz filter.

    We just need someone to design one, put it into production, and then distribute it to Group T aerial owners in time, not so much for the 55/56 switchoff, as for the (narrowly?) subsequent date when the 700Mhz band gets employed for mobile.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • black_t_cblack_t_c Member Posts: 5
    Hi there,

    I'm in London (NW1) and seem to have lost all COM 7 and COM 8 channels via my YouView box; which is exceedingly frustrating.

    I don't believe that our aerial is the issue, as my Sony TV can connect to all the COM 7 & COM 8 channels, as can my Samsung TV (this aerial was connected via the YouView box but is now connected via a signal booster). But the YouView Box (Humax DTRT2000) is still not able to receive COM 7 and COM 8 (again connected via a signal booster).

    Any ideas, as we do watch (and record) a lost of BBC 4 HD - so I'm loath to loose that capability.
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