Consolidated list of improvements and feature requests

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Comments

  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,423Member, Champion mod
    dave3 said:

    Keith

    A  suggestion for you -- how about  transposing your list into a searchable document?

    Please see attached example   

    Hi @dave3 - in general the approach over the last 5 years has been to keep the lists as something simple within the limitations of the forum system rather than putting it in some external system or document format type. That comes with benefit that the content integrates directly with the forum and is relatively easily found and read, but with the short comings of limited formatting and other features. There is limited discussion now that occurs directly in these threads so another approach would be to close or rework them such that the lists each stand as a single post on a closed topic (like the top tips posts that came along later in the old forum system). That single post can then be found within the forum system reasonably easily/consistently (and could be improved if there were a getting started like sticky post or block on the main page that also referenced the terms and conditions and community guidelines)  and the individual post can be searched in the browser (as it can now but without that search then also ranging over the first 20 or so posts that appear on the first page).

    Perhaps rather naively with hindsight, when I started the lists I never expected them to get so long and for the proportion of unimplemented ideas to be so high. Not much though gets added to the lists now as the number of completely new ideas is very low and much of the lists formed within the first year. One might wonder exactly how YouView refer to this list, what their own internal list/roadmap looks like, and thus their private/internal assessment of the ideas and the likelihood they might implement more in the future. That of course is not something that they as a commercial company would disclose here (or in fact most likely anywhere outside of their own employees), and the community terms of use (point 17) also steer us away from such speculation.

    For now though the lists continue to stand as a reasonably good record linking in to the various specific topics that raised the ideas and bugs which many people do seem to find and thus get a quick overview (or in some cases then follow up and read through in more detail or explore a particular idea topic in more detail) that most ideas are well trodden ground that have been well discussed, that YouView are well aware of them and welcome the feedback, but that YouView will of course largely steer the development as they see most appropriate. Potentially other competing products may be aware of the info too and could use it as one of many tools in considering how to develop their own system to compete with and outperform YouView, which would be healthy competition at work :)
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Posts: 751Member ✭✭✭
    @dave3

    Just to reiterate Keith's comment, you can always use the Page Search function in your browser (usually invoked by pressing F5). This is what it looks like in Chrome.


    John.

    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • dave3dave3 Posts: 186Member

    Keith

             "getting started"  - we’re  thinking along the same lines

    Please see below my thoughts / ideas on this. These  are still in the embryo stage:-

    As a newbie – I felt that I kept stepping into bear traps (some of the time, I personally wasn’t in a good place so that didn’t help), but I think there’s room to provide more signposts to allow a better understand of how to use the community forum.   - i.e. a “getting started / welcome pack”  which newbies are directed to /sent to their email address etc., but it must also be persistence - on the front page  - you can only search for things if you know they exist  

    The document created by Sarah about using the new forum – should be matured into a full blown users guide – Perhaps owned / maintained by the community super-users  - thus negating any commercial considerations

    Like you’ve stated it should cover things such as:-

    • Links to other documents – (the ownership of these could be a mixture of either Youview or the community) - Code of conduct, Maintenance mode instructions, the role of the super-users, lists of known requirements and known problems/ bugs as identified by the community,  etc  
    • Explain Technical limitation of Youview  vers broadcaster -  CRID etc. one of the points I got totally confused over

    • Tips / Instructions such as “before posting please check the lists of known problems and known requirements  - although that could be added to the posting screen

    • etc

    - but the welcome document must be persistence and some of the other documents searchable – Expecting a user to type in EPG or App in the current search facility and wade through the results to see if their point has been covered is unrealistic or have I missed something?

    Searchable documents –  rather than going external to a PDF etc, it would be much better if that was a facility provided within the forum, It would enable a search of the list of requirements for all items relating  to EPG or App etc.    – is that a new requirement for the Youview team?    

    The thing that’s also missing is the ability to add “me too” to each of the individual requirements / problems.  Whilst it’s not going to sway Youview for me it would provide a coat peg to hang that particular grievance on.     

    Personally I think the list of requirements will grow, but for that to happen it needs to be better signposted.

  • dave3dave3 Posts: 186Member
    Anaglypta said:
    @dave3

    Just to reiterate Keith's comment, you can always use the Page Search function in your browser (usually invoked by pressing F5). This is what it looks like in Chrome.


    John.

    John - unfortunately our posting crossed -  didn't see your posting before I pressed post  

    PF5 didn't work for me but "ctrl F" did    - one for the list of Top Tips - where ever that is.

    Thanks

  • KeithKeith Posts: 2,423Member, Champion mod
    dave3 said:

    Keith

             "getting started"  - we’re  thinking along the same lines

    Please see below my thoughts / ideas on this. These  are still in the embryo stage:-

    As a newbie – I felt that I kept stepping into bear traps (some of the time, I personally wasn’t in a good place so that didn’t help), but I think there’s room to provide more signposts to allow a better understand of how to use the community forum.   - i.e. a “getting started / welcome pack”  which newbies are directed to /sent to their email address etc., but it must also be persistence - on the front page  - you can only search for things if you know they exist  

    The document created by Sarah about using the new forum – should be matured into a full blown users guide – Perhaps owned / maintained by the community super-users  - thus negating any commercial considerations

    Like you’ve stated it should cover things such as:-

    • Links to other documents – (the ownership of these could be a mixture of either Youview or the community) - Code of conduct, Maintenance mode instructions, the role of the super-users, lists of known requirements and known problems/ bugs as identified by the community,  etc  
    • Explain Technical limitation of Youview  vers broadcaster -  CRID etc. one of the points I got totally confused over

    • Tips / Instructions such as “before posting please check the lists of known problems and known requirements  - although that could be added to the posting screen

    • etc

    - but the welcome document must be persistence and some of the other documents searchable – Expecting a user to type in EPG or App in the current search facility and wade through the results to see if their point has been covered is unrealistic or have I missed something?

    Searchable documents –  rather than going external to a PDF etc, it would be much better if that was a facility provided within the forum, It would enable a search of the list of requirements for all items relating  to EPG or App etc.    – is that a new requirement for the Youview team?    

    The thing that’s also missing is the ability to add “me too” to each of the individual requirements / problems.  Whilst it’s not going to sway Youview for me it would provide a coat peg to hang that particular grievance on.     

    Personally I think the list of requirements will grow, but for that to happen it needs to be better signposted.

    Much of what you suggest existed on the old GetSat based forum (although that of course had numerous other issues), although some had not been so heavily used in the more recent years. Before that forum opened YouView asked me to seed it with some initial topics, plus I added several more after launch, that included some relating to boot strapping new arrivals:


    A further key was then the first of these documents was tied into a very visible welcome block that persisted near the top of the community home page (along with the terms of use and community guidelines plus a short bit of welcome text).

    Such a block does not (yet?) exist on this new forum system. If it did then it would make it worthwhile investing some time in updated such old topics or creating new ones to give those initial welcoming and helpful tips :)

    @Sarah, perhaps you and YouView could give some fresh thought to tweaking the site structure to provide another block near the top of the community home, e.g. above the categories box, within which it could include something similar to the old welcome text, links to the terms of use and community guidelines, plus a getting started link. That getting start link can then be a topic YouView (or I) maintain that has a short list of other helpful links to reference topics such as the lists, forum tips etc :)

  • dave3dave3 Posts: 186Member

    How to do a search in a Safari web page

    Anaglypta  -  I mostly use my mini IPad - to the point where I've forgotten some std. window's features.

    I didn't know how to do word search on my IPad, but have found this on the net  which might be old hat to most on here.

    Using the built in Safari "Find in Page feature".

    In Safari to perform a search for words on the current page, tap the address bar and type in your search. Under the heading "On This Page", tap  "find  .........." .  It's  at the bottom of the list, if you don’t see this option, scroll down — it may be obscured by the on-screen keyboard.

    Also at the top of the page on *some sites they have an extra black line, which has a built in search function, this is a lot more intuitive than the above method. 

    *probably just Apple sites

  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,687Member ✭✭✭
    dave3 said:

    How to do a search in a Safari web page

    Anaglypta  -  I mostly use my mini IPad - to the point where I've forgotten some std. window's features.

    I didn't know how to do word search on my IPad, but have found this on the net  which might be old hat to most on here.

    Using the built in Safari "Find in Page feature".

    In Safari to perform a search for words on the current page, tap the address bar and type in your search. Under the heading "On This Page", tap  "find  .........." .  It's  at the bottom of the list, if you don’t see this option, scroll down — it may be obscured by the on-screen keyboard.

    Also at the top of the page on *some sites they have an extra black line, which has a built in search function, this is a lot more intuitive than the above method. 

    *probably just Apple sites

    Trouble is, Find in Page <> Find in Thread for multi-page threads.

    Though at least we don’t have the folding issue that GetSat had, where Comments could be folded under, so you couldn’t even find things that were on the same page, unless you expanded all the folding first.

    But a good, if perhaps little-known feature of Vanilla (and a prime candidate for the missing ‘How To...s’ on the missing ‘New Users Start Here’ thread) is the little arrow you see on the right of the Search Bar.

    Tap/click this, and a whole new set of filters will appear in the resulting Advanced Search.
    I see the police have a new call-in code: DOE, for ‘Driving Offences Excused’
  • dave3dave3 Posts: 186Member

    Roy thanks for the tip. I tried it out

           - From home page - I did a search on EPG

            - on the search page  set title -  EPG 

           - left everything else to default  Pressed search  -

    it found 121 postings and highlighted EPG

    Then tried it with a search - EPG and title BT. It found 18 posting and highlighted both EPG and BT  

    whereas - a search for BT and tile EPG  -  found  15 events 

    Problem - The advance search -  doesn't allow certain author's names to be selected e.g. "Keith" or "Roy"

    Initial impression - It feels like a tool for those who know what their looking for and I think it would be hard work for newbies to use as a research tool. Perhaps a write up stating intended use might put me right.

     



     

  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,687Member ✭✭✭
    edited 1 November 2017, 12:45PM
    dave3 said:

    Roy thanks for the tip. I tried it out

           - From home page - I did a search on EPG

            - on the search page  set title -  EPG 

           - left everything else to default  Pressed search  -

    it found 121 postings and highlighted EPG

    Then tried it with a search - EPG and title BT. It found 18 posting and highlighted both EPG and BT  

    whereas - a search for BT and tile EPG  -  found  15 events 

    Problem - The advance search -  doesn't allow certain author's names to be selected e.g. "Keith" or "Roy"

    Initial impression - It feels like a tool for those who know what their looking for and I think it would be hard work for newbies to use as a research tool. Perhaps a write up stating intended use might put me right.

    Here is the Vanilla documentation on Advanced Search.

    And here is the blog post introducing it.

    I think there is a problem with the Title search in that it only searches the actual Title (first) postings, and not the whole of the matching threads.

    So your first search assembled all the opening postings (only) from threads with BT in the Title, and then filtered these to show just the ones that contained EPG.

    And your second search assembled all the opening postings (only) from threads with EPG in the Title, and then filtered these to show just the ones that contained BT.

    Hence the different results.

    Perhaps the problem is just with my understanding, though.

    The Author box shows a considerable reluctance to work at all on my iPad, but I do recall it is a bit reluctant to bring up single names even on my laptop, seemingly preferring the (alleged illegal) ones with spaces in, of which there seem to be a surprising number.

    Try putting the name you want in, and then backspacing a couple of characters - surprisingly, this often makes them appear  :o


    I see the police have a new call-in code: DOE, for ‘Driving Offences Excused’
  • JoeJoe Posts: 1,991Member ✭✭✭
    Excellent resource Keith. It’s interesting to see some of the ideas on the list that have come to fruition. Thanks for keeping this updated
  • FredrikFredrik Posts: 11Member
    Can I please request a discrete button press to launch each inbuilt App? For example, the USB keyboard has several spare keys that are currently not assigned to anything. It would be great if these could be assigned to launch iPlayer, ITV Hub etc.
  • microkidmicrokid Posts: 5Member

    Hi - I’m just following up on a couple of points I previously raised to see if there was any movement from the YouView development team on these...

    I’m still find that  Scrolling through the EPG is most frustrating, as when scrolling you must pause, so that it can load and display the relevant EPG data. Surely this data could be cached, thus allowing a much smoother scrolling experience when browsing the EPG. I understand from your previously reply that the development team would want to ensure that he EPG is as up to date as possible, which is fair enough, but could they not cache the EPG data at the point that the EPG is opened? then the data would never be that old (or it could poll for refreshed data in the background and only change the visible EPG data if there are any differences), but it would improve the user experience greatly.

    Adding folders to allow my recordings to be archived as I want.

    I understand that the ability to reorder and hide channels has been added? Does this mean when using the search feature it will only search channels that are visible?

    I am an App developer by trade, and feel much of the User Experience could be improved as could the overall responsiveness – I wish this was an open source platform, I would write my own GUI ;-)

    Thanks!


  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,687Member ✭✭✭
    The EPG is cached, as you will see if you go back over pages you just brought down, as these will move much quicker.

    But the EPG is being brought in as you peruse it normally; to cache it before letting you look at it would make it very smooth - but only after quite a delay while it fetched the whole EPG, including pages you might never look at.

    So the current strategy is deemed the most efficient, even if it is a little halting on a slow connection.

    No movement on folders.

    You still can’t reorder channels, and YouView is unlikely to make this available, at least under the present regime.

    Hide channels only works on the EPG, not anywhere else. In this wise, it has gone backwards from OldGen; but so have a few other things I could mention, and frequently do.

    But YouView seem to be much more interested in the morally dubious possibilities of using the platform to track your children from room to room in the supposed privacy of your home than in rounding out the feature set which is what we all thought we were buying, and not the 2018 version of Winston Smith’s telescreen  >:)
    I see the police have a new call-in code: DOE, for ‘Driving Offences Excused’
  • microkidmicrokid Posts: 5Member
    That’s very frustrating. I can read fast I just want to hold my finger on the right button and whizz through the epg smoothly without stopping for it to load. My old Topfield managed this 12 years ago... and you could reorder channels and create folders. Time to start looking around for something else then. What are the non YouView humax ui’s like?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,687Member ✭✭✭
    microkid said:
    That’s very frustrating. I can read fast I just want to hold my finger on the right button and whizz through the epg smoothly without stopping for it to load. My old Topfield managed this 12 years ago... and you could reorder channels and create folders. Time to start looking around for something else then. What are the non YouView humax ui’s like?
    I never had a Topfield, though it sounds like a tinkerer’s wet dream and a casual user’s worst nightmare. I wonder if distance has added enchantment to the view?

    But as far as I can tell, there were patches to make it do pretty much anything you wanted (except HD and the internet of course), except that you could never guarantee correct interaction, never got a consistent UI, and so on.

    So like Android (or worse, Linux) to YouView’s iOS-like regimentation, which is good or bad depending on your point of view.

    And the only cross-patches on YouView are the users who would like more features....

    But good luck looking around, and do let us know your findings. The general result is a conclusion that, annoying and unnecessary though the limitations of YouView boxen may be, the drawbacks of its competitors, jointly and severally, are greater.
    I see the police have a new call-in code: DOE, for ‘Driving Offences Excused’
  • dreamtimedreamtime Posts: 179Member
    edited 20 December 2018, 9:00AM
    @Roy said 'And the only cross-patches on YouView are the users who would like more features....'

    The ones that were removed and promissed to return would help.
  • John LJohn L Posts: 140Member
    Microkid, I used to own a Topfield pvr for a "short time", but no internet. I eventually got fed up with the machine. I am fairly technical, but I agree with Roy with regards patches etc. It's a machine to tweak, but it needs patience & can crash from time to time! I remember having to reset the pvr & re-download the EPG guide (!) . . . . Oh what fun we had! Not sure if it is still supported? They were a great gadget to use. I even upgraded to the "MYStuff" software download that was open source. It had it's good points, but as Roy mentions no HD, although you could "upscale" to 1080P via HDMI on some models. With regards folders etc, Youview is not really aimed for this market. There is too much to squeeze into the box's firmware software, still awaiting important fixes & features. Microkid, your best bet is purchasing an old Humax T2 Fox PVR, that has customised functions for straight forward recording + more. Youview is more, more advanced, still being developed for the future & has all the latest App players & catch up tv/ plus better search engine. John L
  • microkidmicrokid Posts: 5Member

    I would say the Topfield was well ahead of it's time, and even out of the box provide a better UX. Don’t get me wrong I like youview, but there are a few niggling issues that really should have been resolved a long time ago and I can see no good reason why they weren't. I appreaciate that youview have chosen a ‘closed system’ and that’s fine, I’m all for the ‘it just works approach’. However the updates i am suggesting (and many of those proposed by others) could be implemented in such a way that the end user need not be aware of them (EPG responsiveness being one).

    As a long time Apple & iOS developer I am very used to working with a totally closed system, and I would go as far as to say I think a closed system is a far better proposal than the alternatives. But (there is always a but) Apple execute this extremely well and whilst they don’t like to admit it they do listen to their internal and external developers and the whole platform benefits.

    So again I would ask youview dev team why can’t the EPG responsiveness (and the app) be improved? To me this is a mornings work (if you don’t want to do it send me the source and I will lols). Why can we not have folders for archiving? If the end user does not want them they don’t need to press the button to use them. Why can I not change the channel order or the search filter?

    So yes the Topfield allowed all of these straight out of the box, but of course it was not perfect – I spend all day programming, I don’t want to be doing it in my downtime as well – I just want something to work, and work well!

    What are my options –

    1)   Stick with youview and do nothing this is most likely and most frustrating

    2)   Look for a better box, but not sure there is one – but will keep looking

    3)   Make my own PVR from a Pi or similar – interesting concept but can I be bothered?

    4)   Hack the Youview – interesting.....

    5)   Bin it off, and stream everything from my Apple TV :-)


  • John LJohn L Posts: 140Member
    Hi Microkid, why not do what I do . . . use Youview alongside older pvrs? I have freeview, Freesat & Youview. They all have good & bad points. That way you get the best of both worlds. Plus if you get loads of clashes when scheduling recordings you can use another pvr. Yes, I know it means switching HDMI on tv to another input - only takes seconds to do. It works for me. I don't think any manufacturer is goes to cram everything into one pvr, partly due to costs, plus more importantly as I mentioned, the software size loaded on firmware. Be interesting to hear what anyone else can suggest. John L
  • joneshjonesh Posts: 1,239Member ✭✭✭
    edited 20 December 2018, 6:15PM
    microkid said:

    I would say the Topfield was well ahead of it's time, and even out of the box provide a better UX.

    Topfield's UK PVRs were introduced in a different era from YouView and they were aimed at a different market. They were an expensive niche product that their developers never succeeded in getting to work reliably with Freeview+ firmware. They worked with Ocean Blue https://oceanbluesoftware.com/ to try to make the firmware reliable, but before it was released they gave up and pullled out of the UK market.
    microkid said:
    Scrolling through the EPG is most frustrating, as when scrolling you must pause, so that it can load and display the relevant EPG data.
    The YouView EPG isn't instant, but it isn't particularly slow to navigate. Navigating the EPG of our Panasonic FVP recorder is very much slower. There is a delay of several seconds between pages, and sometimes much longer.
  • John LJohn L Posts: 140Member
    Hi Jonesh, I agree with you. I also use a Panasonic Pvr (DMR-HW220) and indeed the EPG is sluggish at times! I mainly use this for long programmes (easier to navigate through fwd/rwd than the "Youview - grey banner at the bottom feature". I think every pvr has it's good & bad points. The Topfield certainly was "advanced for it's time" & due to cost was no longer supported. The MyStuff software used as EPG guide GUI interface download was "interesting" at first, but you needed a lot of patience to configure various setting/colours/fonts etc. You Spent more time either tweaking settings/reloading software than watching tv! A "gadgetman's dream"! Youview EPG is a lot faster than Panasonic, the search engine is quite slick, compared to other makes. Hopefully as software/hardware improves over the years, the EPG will get smoother, less delay. I think part of the issue not just down to software, but also the hardware processor/onboard ram. The older Youview T1000 was underpowered, now the newer Youview models are starting to slow down slightly(!) Not sure what the latest model T4000 is like with EPG speed? John L 
  • microkidmicrokid Posts: 5Member
    I'm not suggest that the Topfield unit was a masterpiece that should be emulated. Merely that it did not suffer from a few niggling issues that you view does. Since yesterday I have spoken with 4 other people with youview boxes. I did not lead them in anyway, but was surprised that they all described the same type of issues. These issues all seem to be related to either finding saved content or finding something that is currently on.

    The Topfield is old, but Youview is new / current, do they seem unwilling to resolve these minor issues? Where are they taking the platform that is so great that they are unwilling to do this?
  • jimbjimb Posts: 1,064Member ✭✭
    microkid said:

     ...Where are they taking the platform that is so great that they are unwilling to do this?
    Ask Alexa  :)
  • VisionmanVisionman Posts: 9,144Member ✭✭✭
    edited 21 December 2018, 8:18PM
    Topfield, Topfield, Topfield....

    So great they pulled out of the UK market because they didn't sell enough. A tinkerers dream but an off-the-shelf users nightmare. 'Niche' doesn't even get there.

    And whats the other fave that is often touted on technical forums as much beloved from yesteryear, yet also discontinued? The Fox HDR T2, with technical custom firmware loaded of course. A product with features which Humax never repeated as they moved their products towards more mainstream.

    Both products aren't comparable with a YouView simply because of their nature.

    By-the-by, my EPG is slick and quick and can see no delay when scrolling across it.
    I'm also not aware there that there is a widespread reported issue with it. Unless there is?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,687Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 December 2018, 7:18AM
    Visionman said:
    Topfield, Topfield, Topfield....

    Roy said: (as I can’t get the cursor to move out of this ruddy dialogue box)
    So good they named it three times?
    I see the police have a new call-in code: DOE, for ‘Driving Offences Excused’
  • stokesd3stokesd3 Posts: 134Member
    edited 14 January 2019, 9:38AM
    Two things I miss (from my TiVo days) are prioritisation of recordings so I don't have to keep messing about redoing scheduled recordings, and also automatic record of programmes that match a search criteria. This was particularly useful for setting a programme to record that wasn't yet in the guide 😀
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