Icons instead of lists

DepressedDepressed Member Posts: 1
Despite arrogant and ignorant replies to concerns aired about You View's switch to icon view instead of list view last year, I really need to try again to put my point across and hope for support from other forum members. It doesn't matter whether or not people prefer one over the other, the fact remains that, for me,  visual impairment means that a clear, written list is essential - good bold white font on a strong, dark background. The new format is impossible for me to use and when I heard that it was going to be forced upon us in a software update, I immediately disconnected my boxes from the Internet so am further discriminated against by not having access to the advantages of having paid for You View rather than ordinary PVRs. I cannot be the only person with sight problems who likes to watch favourite programmes and needs to be able to see listings on the EPG and also lists of programmes already recorded. Television can be a bit of a lifeline for me and many others and while lists may not be as appealing to some, surely it would not be beyond the technical expertise of You View to, at least, give customers a choice.

Comments

  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 835 ✭✭
    Depressed, I couldn't agree more with you! I love technology & yes some improvements, but I fully understand. My eyesight is not as good as when I was younger in my 30's/40's. "Younger" maybe the clue in all of this? I wonder the age range of the Youview IT staff. I assume 20/30's early 40's+? Maybe the design team is young & has good eyesight. When I say good eyesight, I include wearing specs/contact lens. The only option on the pvr is a terrible Black dark interface that only hightlights icons/text, doesn't really do much to help if you suffer from eyesight /health problems. Yes, to conclude there should be an option to either have list or tiles. Something to suit everyone's tastes, not just the Youview designers! Anyone else agree or not?
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • John C1John C1 Member Posts: 33
    I'm not visually impaired like yourself but my eyes are worsening now I've hit my 50s. All the information is there as the new tile interface is just a list of tiles, so it would take an alternate view being created and an option adding in the settings to set to either tile or list view, simple. 

    If it were a website and customers were moaning their bag off it could be marked and coded up in no time, certainly compared to the pedestrian updates we get. They could even add a sort order in the settings or view screens too, wasn't that another thing that got kicked to the curb in the new improved interface?

    It's ridiculous, like the see through (but you can't really) current program through the guide, probably a "look we can do transparency!" If some like it that is great, but put an option in the settings to say you want the old style mini view in the upper corner.

    I hope tptb listen to you and give you want you want, I just wanted a rant and agree with you wholeheartedly.
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 835 ✭✭
    Totally agree with you JohnC1. They call this progress! "Progress" in which way? It seems very biased to what the design team see fit. The original was a robust design, yes I appreciate you have to keep up with things, the menu layout gradually over time becomes slightly dated, but to totally rewrite software platform from scratch overnight in my opinion a gamble. I appreciate Youview may have design budgets to consider, but they also overlook the wider "picture". The EPG guide is not in any way as good as the original in my opinion. I remember the original version & on a old non HD tv the design was very bland & dark. With the newer HD/HDMI tv's you now have a backlight setting that improves the contrast & makes everything have more clarity. I think the main design problem with the Youview EPG/menus has to be the general dark colour scheme. I appreciate that BT/Talk Talk etc each have opted for slight colour variations, so a slight factor to take into consideration with the design for text/colour background. I'm still awaiting for Discover to return on my BT 2100. Now that's another episode to look forward to! Maybe in time for this Christmas? John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • John C1John C1 Member Posts: 33
    It's even worse than that, if it was recoded from scratch and things were just not implemented rather than removed, that still wouldn't matter from the tiles vs lists point of view, all the information is still there, the data, folders and the pagination; it just needs new views, you could do it in either 2 or 1 new view.

    This kind of thing would probably be given to the junior on the team as it is that easy (really it is), the architects and senior members work on the high level stuff like moving everything to the cloud and layering the software correctly, the junior would be working in a test environment and be told that the tile view has everything you need, just look at that and create the views, they are tabular for heavens sake, next to nothing is easier and more compatible than tables. Add in a setting with a default of tiles if required but at least we would be left with the option to get rid of the tile view, something that I don't think we are alone in wanting.

    I've a BT 2110 retail so virtually identical to yours John L. Discover, only available through the app now, some boxes have had this restored I think (Is it the retail Humax boxes?), maybe BT will give it to us one day, I wouldn't hold your breath though...
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 835 ✭✭
    to sum it up John C1, a total mess! I agree. No correction, must show some positiveness . . . "organised chaos"! with regards the move from oldgen to next gen software. Just glad I use other PVRs, some older & in some ways better with the design to cater for everyone. Yes Youview may be better in some instances. Just a shame what has happened. You know the old saying . . . if it an't broke, don't fix it! Yes I agree with regards redesigning. Seems to have been overlooked in a number of areas. John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • KeithKeith Member, Super User Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭
    edited 12 October 2018, 6:06PM
    Whilst I understand YouView's position that they have done extensive user testing and feedback and apparently received very high (and rising) positive ratings for next gen, in my opinion next gen remains without a doubt deficient in some areas. That might be lost features (as noted in my next gen first impression post - which contains several lists), admittedly some quite small, or failure to better capitalise on worthy suggestions for enhancements (as noted in the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests - goodness me another list), or as in this case changes or short comings that detract from their previously strong position in relation to accessibility and inclusivity.
    On a personal level next gen works well for me and I'm comfortable using the tiles (following the various improvements made to those since the launch of next gen that got rid of the silly large tile and better implemented journeys in and out of series tiles and episodes). However, I consider accessibility to be important and in my opinion it would not be that much work (as also noted by others above) to create a second view of the recordings information that was laid out as a single column of primarily text based tiles, lets call it a list for simplicity :smile:
    That alternate list view would not be the default and might not be used by the majority of customers, but would it really be that hard to implement, and would it not be worth the relatively small amount of development time to do it and to then be able to make positive use of it in trumpeting the accessibility features within YouView.
    I have of course said all that before in various ways here and no doubt in other ways when in conversation with some YouView people. Nothing has changed in relation to this in the last 2 years so I am not optimistic anything will change in the near future either. It is still worth bringing up from time to time though.
    For completeness I've added this topic as a second reference to item 116 in the consolidated list of improvements and feature requests :)
    Now if only this forum system had better support for HTML tables I could perhaps devote some time to converting the various consolidated lists into tiled grids and find some nice images to represent each point for each tile ;)
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,170 ✭✭✭
    Keith I consider accessibility to be important and in my opinion it would not be that much work (as also noted by others above) to create a second view of the recordings information that was laid out as a single column of primarily text based tiles, lets call it a list for simplicity :smile: 
    That alternate list view would not be the default and might not be used by the majority of customers, but would it really be that hard to implement, and would it not be worth the relatively small amount of development time to do it and to then be able to make positive use of it in trumpeting the accessibility features within YouView.
    I have of course said all that before in various ways here and no doubt in other ways when in conversation with some YouView people. 
    Hmm. No. An alternative GUI will never be offered by any platform anywhere, so YouView isn't unique there.

    But lets say a user does become so disillusioned with YouView and decides to leave, where are they going to go?

    Freeview Play? No -Tiles. A Freeview? Very little of them left now. SKY Q? No,as also tiles.
    Or a Virgin V6? no... tiles yet again. So theres literally nowhere for anyone to go.

    Though I note every single commenter has completely ignored YouViews disability function features, which work.
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • John C1John C1 Member Posts: 33
    I think it is good that there is some more discussion about this. Many thanks to @Keith for his input too.

    Of course @Visionman is spot on, I'd love to end my rant with a "stuff this, I'm off to Freeview Play or something similar" but I think he's right, there is nowhere else to go sadly. I have to say though, it's not just the tiles, it is so many aspects of new gen youview, I remember when I first bought my youview box running old gen and saying to myself "why didn't I get one of these sooner", I do still like youview but the missing functionality, lack of lists and transparent guide with no mini viewer just eats at me because of what I used to have. I just don't agree with the direction new gen moved in...
  • Tim CTim C Member, Super User Posts: 587 ✭✭
    I am running a tiles based box & a list based box & the list one is by far the easier to use in my opinion & I don't have any eye-sight issues. And of course it has all the missing functionality :)

    As for alternatives, well yes there are:-
    Panasonic Freeview Play units are list based according to their manuals & my Panasonic FVP TV with recording is list based.
    Freeview Play isn't the determining factor whether it's tile or list based , that's down to the manufacturer & fortunately Panasonic like lists currently.
  • DanielDaniel Member, Super User Posts: 1,979 ✭✭✭
    You know I have ms. Your name leaves a lot to be desired. If you have ms you would know real depression and not because of set top box software. I would never wish it on anybody.
Sign In or Register to comment.