Removing my YouView box

Apologies if this is covered by other posts or outside the scope of this forum but it's such a strange issue I thought I'd give it a go:

After I installed my TalkTalk YouView box a couple of years ago I noticed I could no longer get HD channels on my Samsung Smart TV - they showed up in the guide but I couldn't get audio or video when selecting them. Not being a big TV viewer I wasn't too concerned but a few months ago I decided that, as I never use the features on the YouView box and don't subscribe to any channels over and above the Freeview ones then I had may as well remove the box altogether. Unfortunately, I now find that the TV won't work without the YouView box. That is, if I remove all cables and simply switch the incoming aerial from the YouView box to the TV the signal doesn't seem strong enough for a picture on audio on ANY channel. My aerial is a rather ancient in-loft thing with a booster attached, and I did have my roof replaced recently, but I assume that if the signal is good enough for the YouView box it should be good enough for the TV? Oddly enough, if I remove the other end of the aerial lead from the wall socket I actually get a better signal - no video but some audio, as if the lead is acting as its own aerial. 

Am I somehow misunderstanding what the YouView box is doing? Does it somehow boost the signal or use broadband to help supply the programmes, in which case it seems I'm stuck with it, or am I missing something else obvious? I don't really want to fork out for a new aerial as the old one worked fine before - I would rather wait for the end of my contract then go to Sky as it seems they can provide the same service for half the price anyway. It would be really nice to know what's going on though!

Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • John LJohn L Posts: 157Member
    Hi Martinsirl. Welcome to Youview forum. If I understand from you message, you are no longer using Youview box? Hopefully Simple problem. The Youview box is not feeding signal through once unplugged or turned off. You put the Youview box aside & NOT have this connected to tv. Simply need to feed aerial cable directly from aerial feed/socket to your tv. If you still have a  problem/need more help, someone on forums will be able to help. Let us know if this has helped you. John L
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,939Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 January 2019, 1:46PM
    John L said:
    Hi Martinsirl. Welcome to Youview forum. If I understand from you message, you are no longer using Youview box? Hopefully Simple problem. The Youview box is not feeding signal through once unplugged or turned off. You put the Youview box aside & NOT have this connected to tv. Simply need to feed aerial cable directly from aerial feed/socket to your tv. If you still have a  problem/need more help, someone on forums will be able to help. Let us know if this has helped you. John L
    @John L
     
    @martinsirl said: ‘if I remove all cables and simply switch the incoming aerial from the YouView box to the TV the signal doesn't seem strong enough for a picture or audio on ANY channel.’

    So I think, in principle, that he was doing the right thing towards dropping the YouView box out of the picture.....
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,939Member ✭✭✭
    edited 22 January 2019, 2:19PM
    @martinsirl

    Hi

    I don’t think you have missed or misunderstood anything. Except that the aerial didn’t work fine before, or you would not have lost the HD channels on your Samsung TV.

    It seems like your aerial signal was strong enough to register with the Samsung as a tunable channel, but not strong enough to actually display the channel tuned. This can happen when it’s marginal.

    That things are slightly better when you take the aerial out of the wall suggests something seriously awry somewhere from the aerial socket back up to the aerial; perhaps a dead short, perhaps a problem with the aerial or the booster.

    Or the power to the booster; is this powered from a mains socket in the loft? If it isn’t, this may be the sort of setup where the booster power supply is remote from the loft, and feeds the power the booster needs back up the aerial lead to the booster. People often don’t realise what these are or how they work, especially when they ‘inherit’ them, so they may disconnect them or switch them off at the wall, as something seemingly superfluous. And then wonder where their TV signal went.

    I wonder if this is what has happened for you?

    Or maybe you live in London, and never revised your aerial arrangements when the channels were moved to accommodate 4G?

    Either way, you need your aerial looked at; and, as above, your issues are not to do with the TalkTalk YouView box, whether in the circuit or out of it.
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • John LJohn L Posts: 157Member
    Roy said:
    John L said:
    Hi Martinsirl. Welcome to Youview forum. If I understand from you message, you are no longer using Youview box? Hopefully Simple problem. The Youview box is not feeding signal through once unplugged or turned off. You put the Youview box aside & NOT have this connected to tv. Simply need to feed aerial cable directly from aerial feed/socket to your tv. If you still have a  problem/need more help, someone on forums will be able to help. Let us know if this has helped you. John L
    @John L
     
    @martinsirl said: ‘if I remove all cables and simply switch the incoming aerial from the YouView box to the TV the signal doesn't seem strong enough for a picture or audio on ANY channel.’

    So I think, in principle, that he was doing the right thing towards dropping the YouView box out of the picture.....
    Thank you Roy
  • martinsirlmartinsirl Posts: 6Member
    Thanks for the replies! I really hadn't expected anyone to respond so quickly, so thank you.

    To answer some of the questions raised:

    I am still using the YouView box as the TV won't pick up any channels if I don't use it (but see my last point below).

    Yes, the aerial booster is powered from a mains supply in the loft. I don't really understand how the booster works but it always seemed to produce enough of a signal before, though I agree that an aerial problem seems the likely culprit here (I'm not ruling out my roofer moving or damaging the aerial somehow) - I'm just surprised as to how the YouView box seems to 'fix' it.

    Finally, I'm not in London but I have to admit that, when I plugged the aerial straight back into the TV, I'm not completely sure I re-tuned the TV. It seems logical I would have but as I can't specifically recall I think I will try once more this weekend. I'll post the results here. Either way, the YouView box seems to be the innocent party in all this, in fact it's the only thing that is enabling me to watch TV at all at the moment. I just miss watching the Six Nations rugby in HD, that's all, hence the timing of this post.




  • John LJohn L Posts: 157Member
    Hi Martinsirl, No problem, the Youview box, like my pvrs, has a built in amp for twin tuner so maybe some help slightly in signal strength. Hope you are able to get fixed soon, it's always easier to see the problem described when you are actually there. Might be worth also checking cable connections. The cheap ones only last 5 minutes if you plug/unplug connections. £1 from well known high street shop. I don't watch the Rugby (!) but appreciate your frustration. Good luck (hope your team wins in the Rugby!). John L
  • martinsirlmartinsirl Posts: 6Member
    Thanks again. I think I'm slowly narrowing down the problem, i.e. aerial not really up to the job and (at the risk of attracting ridicule) the co-axial cable I'm using to connect the TV to the wall socket is (a) very long, and (b) home-made by me. I'll re-tune the TV and buy a better lead and post an update if matters improve. Otherwise, I'll either have to invest in a new aerial or consider giving my cash to Murdoch or Branson instead.
  • redchizredchiz Posts: 4,816Member ✭✭✭
    Are you using a different cable when connecting the aerial to the YouView box, rather than the TV directly? In all honesty I am a bit puzzled by this as it is sometimes the case that a YouView box will struggle to tune whereas a TV is usually fine, rarely the other way around. Do let us know how you get on with switching cables, but if all is OK when using the YouView box why not simply continue to do so with your TV acting as a monitor rather than go to the more considerable expense of a replacement aerial? If the problem persists with the TV the issue may be there, is the co-ax connector on the TV sound and secure?
  • martinsirlmartinsirl Posts: 6Member
    Thanks, I'll let you know. No, it's the same cable I'm using for the TV and the YouView box which is why I'm equally puzzled.

    There were two main reasons why I wanted to lose the YouView box altogether: firstly, I wasn't sure whether the YouView box would still work if I leave TalkTalk (though I'm guessing it will) and, secondly, because I would like my HD channels back (which used to work OK pre-YouView). So it's a bit of a trade-off: assuming I could get the TV working isolation again I can either have my HD channels (which I can't get through the YouView box) or the pause/rewind/record functionality the YouView box provides? Of course, if I could get HD to work WITH the YouView box I then have everything I want, which I why I guess I should be concentrating on anything that might impede the incoming aerial signal as that's starting to look like the problem.

    I know what I'll be doing this weekend anyway.
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,939Member ✭✭✭
    TalkTalk support are doing the strongly deprecated FUD thing of misleading people about the status of a TalkTalk box when you drop TalkTalk TV  :'(

    Despite other TalkTalk forum staff trying to counter this.

    The box will work like a YouView retail box once you drop TalkTalk TV; it will get all the channels you can tune in(!), record them if you wish, and it will get all the broadcaster Players.

    It will no longer play any recordings you made earlier from TalkTalk Boost channels, but it will still play your earlier recordings made from broadcast channels.

    The box will always get software updates on the TalkTalk schedule, but you will get these no matter which ISP you are currently using, or use in the future.
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,939Member ✭✭✭
    edited 24 January 2019, 10:31AM
    Turning to the aerial issue, what you are reporting confuses me as much as it does @redchiz. The YouView box does boost the aerial out signal, so its possible that a marginal signal in could be boosted such that the TV can work off it, whereas it can’t work off the direct signal.

    But as redchiz says, it’s much more usual that somebody’s TV can tune well enough off a weak signal, while the YouView box can’t.

    And losing all the HD channels? Some of them perhaps, with the channel reassignments for 4G clearance, but not all of them.

    Having suffered myself from a home-made aerial lead in the past, I agree that the first thing you should do is get a professionally-made one and try it.

    Or at least to unscrew each end of your home-made one and remake the connections, ensuring there are no open circuits, and no shorts.

    And then to check what channels you can get, directly on the TV, and then on the TalkTalk box, and on the TV looped through the TalkTalk box, retuning in each case.

    Another thing you should do is go on the Digital UK coverage checker, entering your postcode and house number and ticking Detailed View, to see which transmitter you are likely to be using, and which multiplexes you should get. You can then see which channels are on which multiplex from this page.

    Basically, you should get the ‘big five’ HD channels off the BBC B mux, which should be pretty universally available, but the other HD channels, and some SD ones, are on COM7 HD and COM8 HD, which you may not be able to get where you are, no matter how good your aerial arrangements. But you should check and see.

    If you are no better off once you have the new aerial lead, though, then despite redchiz’ laudable aim of saving you money, it will be time to get a competent aerial specialist in - making sure you get a recommended local one (we use the one that the local Richer Sounds recommends) - as it does not make sense to have hundreds of pounds worth of TV kit, and skimp on the tens of pounds an aerial specialist might cost you to be able to enjoy your setup to the full.
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
  • martinsirlmartinsirl Posts: 6Member
    OK, time to admit defeat and get in a specialist as suggested...

    I tried to re-tune the TV (minus YouView) using a brand new cable and can't get any channels at all - just a 'weak or missing signal' message.

    When connecting via YouView and re-tuning I do successfully pick up a lot of channels (up to 120) but which selection I get changes every time I re-tune. It's like Russian Roulette! At the moment I have all the main ones but no Quest Red so I'm not looking forward to breaking the news to my other half that she won't be watching Say Yes To The Dress for a while!

    Which cable I use doesn't actually make a lot of difference. There might be a slightly better signal with the new one but it's marginal. What I have noticed is that the signal strength and quality go up and down a fair bit all the time (strength fluctuating between 40 and 55 per cent; quality between 80 and 94 per cent) which I guess is why re-tuning gives me different results each time? I can only assume that the YouView box is somehow less fussy about my erratic signal whereas the TV just won't stand for it and just says 'no'. Funny how the TV always used to work OK but then that was before I had my roof replaced a couple of years ago.

    Still some questions remain unanswered but I'm getting there. I'll consult a professional and if anything interesting comes out of it I'll post an update here. Thanks for everyone who weighed in!




  • Just to tie this one up, a rather boring and predictable end to this saga.

    A factory reset followed by a re-tune on my Samsung smart TV finally enabled it to detect a lot of the channels but few with a strong enough signal to actually watch. Upon examining the aerial in my loft it basically fell apart in my hands so I called an engineer out who fitted a new one together with a new booster. As a result both the YouView box and TV are now able to pick up around 175 channels. Best of all I finally have all the main HD channels back so I was able to watch England beat France the other day in glorious high definition.

    Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. The engineer couldn't really explain why the YouView box was better at picking up signals than the TV - possibly it's a bit less fussy about what it sees as an acceptable signal when doing its re-tunes.

     
  • RoyRoy Posts: 14,939Member ✭✭✭
    Glad you got it fixed.

    So - as others with possibly dodgy aerial setups are wavering here about calling in a professional - worth the money, would you say?
    Does HDMI stand for Hardly Dare Mention It?
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