Picture lags behind sound, and I can't seem to compensate

NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
in Support
Has anyone managed to see an improvement in picture to sound sync, when adjusting in the settings? My picture lags well behind the sound.  Always has done, I think.  Difficult to say how much, but I'm guessing 100 to 300ms range.  Adjusting the setting doesn't seem to help.  And the menu don't explain whether it's delaying the sound or delaying the picture, so it could even be making it worse. Thanks

Comments

  • NewfyNewfy Member Posts: 55 ✭
    whats your Sound source after the YV Box - just using the TV, or do you have a SoundBox in the loop  -- if so, you should be able to try & sync the sound & picture that way .... perhaps ...
  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    Just a Sony TV.  I had a look in the Sony settings but failed to find any settings for picture/sound sync
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,303 ✭✭✭
    Are you watching normal live TV (Freeview) or internet channels? If internet from which ISP?
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    Just your regular Freeview live TV.  Channel 4 / 4+1 HD seems particularly bad, but that might just be because I watch the news live, and other programs as recordings.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,804 ✭✭✭
    edited 13 April 2019, 2:32PM
    Niggle said:
    Just your regular Freeview live TV.  Channel 4 / 4+1 HD seems particularly bad, but that might just be because I watch the news live, and other programs as recordings.
    I might be inclined to put that setting on the YouView box back to 0, and do a soft reset, see if that helps.

    While not recording, nor about to, touch the On/Standby button on the box for just over 8 seconds until it soft reboots.

    This won’t lose any of your settings, or recordings or anything; it will just make sure the box refreshes its running software from its own internal copy.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,303 ✭✭✭
    What connections are you using on the TV? SCART? HDMI 1/2 etc?
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    Roy, thanks, I'll give that a try sometime.  Although the setting is already at 0, and I'm pretty sure the box has been through a few power cycles since I've noticed the problem.  I've been living with it for months now, but only now got around to asking about it. The setting doesn't really seem to make a blind bit of difference.

    Visionman, I'm using HDMI (AV5) to the T2100, and another HDMI (AV4) to a Sony BlueRay (which rarely gets powered up). No SCART.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,804 ✭✭✭
    You might like to pop a BluRay disc on, and see how that syncs. And then see what difference, if any, putting the BluRay Player on AV5 makes.

    If one or both of those are out of sync, it points to a problem with the TV; if not, it throws the focus back on the YouView box.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭
    Niggle said:
    Just a Sony TV.  I had a look in the Sony settings but failed to find any settings for picture/sound sync
    The source of the problem could be the TV. I have often noticed the sound to be slightly out of synchronisation with the picture since TV became digital.
  • VisionmanVisionman Member, Super User Posts: 10,303 ✭✭✭
    edited 13 April 2019, 8:39PM
    jonesh said:
    The source of the problem could be the TV.

     Almost definitely, as broadcast sound and vision aren't encoded separately, they come together. 
    I'm now happy with the disagree icon, because its gone.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,804 ✭✭✭
    Visionman said:
    jonesh said:
    The source of the problem could be the TV.

     Almost definitely, as broadcast sound and vision aren't encoded separately, they come together. 
    Umm - don’t I recall from when HD was coming in that the BBC would have test transmissions of pips with on-screen visuals, precisely so people could accurately adjust sound/vision sync where necessary?
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • AnaglyptaAnaglypta Member, Super User Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Roy said:
    Visionman said:
    jonesh said:
    The source of the problem could be the TV.

     Almost definitely, as broadcast sound and vision aren't encoded separately, they come together. 
    Umm - don’t I recall from when HD was coming in that the BBC would have test transmissions of pips with on-screen visuals, precisely so people could accurately adjust sound/vision sync where necessary?
    I concur.
    John.
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - George S. Patton
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭
    edited 15 April 2019, 12:03AM
    Roy said:
    Visionman said:
    jonesh said:
    The source of the problem could be the TV.
     Almost definitely, as broadcast sound and vision aren't encoded separately, they come together. 
    Umm - don’t I recall from when HD was coming in that the BBC would have test transmissions of pips with on-screen visuals, precisely so people could accurately adjust sound/vision sync where necessary?
    Isn't that to correct for differences in the processing time of the sound and video at the receiver end?
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,804 ✭✭✭
    edited 15 April 2019, 8:33AM
    jonesh said:
    Roy said:
    Visionman said:
    jonesh said:
    The source of the problem could be the TV.
     Almost definitely, as broadcast sound and vision aren't encoded separately, they come together. 
    Umm - don’t I recall from when HD was coming in that the BBC would have test transmissions of pips with on-screen visuals, precisely so people could accurately adjust sound/vision sync where necessary?
    Isn't that to correct for differences in the processing time of the sound and video at the receiver end?
    Precisely.

    Which is why @Visionman’s comment that the sound and vision arrive together down your aerial does not imply that they will leave together from your screen and your speakers.

    Let alone that having arrived together down your aerial to the YouView box and been passed by HDMI to the TV, and then displayed by the TV, it is possible to eliminate the YouView box as the source of the trouble.

    A proper investigation of this issue requires that the following configurations are tested, until the problem is isolated, and @Niggle needs to carry out those that he can and report back:-

    Aerial direct into TV.
    Alternative device (e.g. his BluRay player) to feed TV via HDMI, over the same HDMI cable into the same input the YouView box uses.
    YouView box feeding an alternative TV.

    That last test could be the most definitive, but perhaps not the easiest to carry out, depending.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    Roy, thanks for the summary.  Agreed, I need to try a few options.

    My feeling is that it's only YouView live TV (and maybe only some HD channels) that exhibits the problem, not recorded programs, and not BlueRay.  Which obviously points to YouView, not the TV.  YouView to an alternative TV would be definitive, but I don't have one.

    I think my next step will be to start an instant recording on a channel when the sync is bad, and see if that recording is also bad ...
  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    Ok, I just watched (and recorded) the end of Channel 4 News, showing on Channel 4+1 HD, where the sound was ahead of the picture, by maybe 200ms, difficult to say.  Playback of the recorded version was also bad.  Then I flipped over to watch 'New Travel Man' on Channel 4 HD, which was fine.

    So I think this shows it's not the TV, but something peculiar to particular channels, either with the decoding in the T2100, or with the incoming signal.  I'm pointed at Hannington, in case that's significant.

    Maybe the problem has always been with just channel 109.  Weird?

  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    edited 15 April 2019, 9:22PM
    One other thing, my Sony KDL-40V3000 TV, although Full HD, doesn't have an HD receiver, so unfortunately I can't test Channel 4+1 HD (or any HD channels) directly on my TV (except from the YouView box via HDMI).
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,804 ✭✭✭
    At this point, I would suggest a Maintenance Mode Option 4, which keeps your recordings, to see if this flushes out any peculiarities with the running software on the box.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    Ok, thanks.  Is there much difference between Option 2 (Factory Reset, keep recordings, recommended) and Option 4 (Internet/USB Recovery, keep recordings)?
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,804 ✭✭✭
    Niggle said:
    Ok, thanks.  Is there much difference between Option 2 (Factory Reset, keep recordings, recommended) and Option 4 (Internet/USB Recovery, keep recordings)?
    Option 2 uses a copy of the software already on your box. Option 4 fetches a new copy from YouView’s servers.

    I always think that as long as you can straightforwardly connect to YouView, it is better to have a new, known good, copy, rather than the backup copy already on your box. Which might be just as good, of course. Or might not  :p
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭
    It is up to you whether you take Roy's advice, or that officially coming from YouView.  
  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    Indeed. But I don't think I have any advice from YouView. 

    A bit mystified by that comment, to be honest. Are you referring to this specific issue? 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,804 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 April 2019, 8:51AM
    Niggle said:
    Indeed. But I don't think I have any advice from YouView. 

    A bit mystified by that comment, to be honest. Are you referring to this specific issue? 
    Yes @Niggle, that is exactly what @redchiz is referring to.

    YouView mark Option 2 as Recommended, and suggest, if that doesn’t work, Option 3, which deletes your recordings.

    My understanding is that Option 4 is like Option 2, but the software is refetched from YouView’s servers, rather than from a copy held on the (now suspect) box.

    Maybe this is not the case, but YouView have never explained why or where my reasoning might be faulty.

    And the Factory Reset in the Settings Menu has been described as equivalent to Option 5, not to the (recommended) Option 3.

    So it’s a nice judgement - with a sick box, would you rather have the certainty that nothing can go wrong refreshing the software, but the worry that you might be doing it from a faulty copy (Option 2), or the certainty that you are accessing a good copy on YouView’s servers, but the worry that something might go wrong in the transfer (Option 4)?

    Obviously, if you have a problem with connecting to YouView, you have no choice but Option 2; but when the connection is OK, I prefer, and recommend, Option 4.

    Assuming that YouView’s recommendation doesn’t just reflect a desire not to have their servers overloaded (or even if it is indeed just that!), I would welcome a statement from YouView on the rationale behind preferring Option 2 to Option 4.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • NiggleNiggle Member Posts: 78 ✭
    Ah, I see, *that* advice.  Do options 2 and 4 both delete the scheduled recording list?

    If yes, I think I'll just try to avoid channel 109 for now.  The benefit doesn't justify the risk.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,804 ✭✭✭
    edited 18 April 2019, 2:52PM
    Niggle said:
    Ah, I see, *that* advice.  Do options 2 and 4 both delete the scheduled recording list?

    If yes, I think I'll just try to avoid channel 109 for now.  The benefit doesn't justify the risk.
    They do the same as far as what goes from the box and what stays on the box.

    But your schedule is now held in the cloud for you, and crawls back onto the box over the next hour or so.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
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