Youview & TalkTalk iOS Apps have lost schedule details

Tim CTim C ✭✭Posts: 436Member ✭✭
edited 25 March 2019, 10:42AM in Support
My Youview app is paired to a T2100 & the TalkTalk app is paired to a T4000.
Both have lost visibility of much of the schedule on these boxes independently. Both apps are upto date.
Looks like a cloud issue perhaps?
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Comments

  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 25 March 2019, 10:54AM
    Yep - good spot, @Tim C

    On my iOS YouView app,  the usual three programmes for today, and then nothing.

    Box-style, where you only get the next showing, instead of the greatly to be preferred 7 days to come that the app used to show.

    Though as we have no later one-offs set, I don’t know if it is cutting off after today, or cutting off after one next showing, or what.

    Does what you can see, @Tim C, support either hypothesis?

    I do hope this is a temporary glitch.

    @Sarah and/or @Louise?
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • Tim CTim C ✭✭ Posts: 436Member ✭✭
    There's no definable logic that I can see to what's missing. Nothing after tomorrow but there's is missing stuff tomorrow as well like The Great British Sewing Bee.
    I just set a program to record via the app & another via the box (both for today) & they are both picked up by the app.
    Just done the same for Thursday & again the app can see them, but not those already there for Wednesday or Thursday.
  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 80Member
    Same here. Looks like it missed a couple of days in this week’s bookings.
  • LouiseLouise admin Posts: 68Administrator admin
    Hi all,

    We're looking in to this issue - so any more details you can give us to help us investigate would be valuable:

    • If anyone has a screenshot of the discrepancies between the schedule shown on the app and that on the box, these would be useful
    • Whether you are using the iOS or the Android version of the app (either YouView or TalkTalk)
    • Specific bookings missing - and whether these are series or not
    • When (I appreciate this is a shot in the dark!) the bookings were made - even a rough estimate would be helpful
    • STB models the apps are linked to
    The more you can provide the easier it is for us :smiley:

    Thank you,
    Louise


  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    Here’s the Schedule on the box (T2000) :-



    Note that Homes Under the Hammer, a regular staple, is missing now, and looking at the Guide, the programme is there for tomorrow and subsequent days, but the recording flag is not.

    And here is the schedule (or lack of it) on the paired iOS app on my iPad:-



    Oops. There were three recordings scheduled, all for today, including HUTH, when I checked earlier, and all have recorded OK, which is why the schedule now shows empty. (Even though it shouldn’t, if you see what I mean).

    The schedule on my Android phone is complete, except that all the thumbnails are gone. And it also accurately shows that HUTH has gone, which may be completely unrelated, or it may be a part of this.

    All these bookings were made yonks ago, and usually from the app on iPad or Android phone, but both now say No Bookings To Display.

    All these booking are Series. Both devices are paired with the T2000.

    Further:-

    I put HUTH back with Series Schedule on the T2000. It reappeared in Schedule on the box. And this week’s episodes instantly populated Scheduled on the iPad, but everything else is still missing.

    On the Android phone, HUTH likewise reappeared, but the thumbnails for all the other Scheduled programmes remained gone, and only HUTH has them. 

    Stop press: actually while I was looking at it, all the other programmes disappeared off the Android phone as well, leaving only the grin HUTH, still with thumbnails.

    I could take a screenshot, but the speed with which the situation is deteriorating, it would need to be a video  :p
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    Android.. 


    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • SarahSarah admin Posts: 1,287Administrator admin
    Hiya, 
    Thanks for the screenshots @Roy. Our team are continuing to look into this after reproducing this on a few different devices on our end as well. 
    We will let you know when we get any further updates.
    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • Tim CTim C ✭✭ Posts: 436Member ✭✭
    edited 25 March 2019, 6:24PM
    Here's mine from the Youview iOS app and the T2100.


  • Tim CTim C ✭✭ Posts: 436Member ✭✭
    As a test I paired another iOS device to the T2100 and exactly the same items are missing from the schedule.
  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 26 March 2019, 10:20PM
    21:17 26/03/2019

    Looks like it’s fixed, on both my iPad and my Android phone.

    We await Sarah and Louise’s explanation with bated breath...
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • Tim CTim C ✭✭ Posts: 436Member ✭✭
    Roy said:
    21:17 26/03/2019

    Looks like it’s fixed, on both my iPad and my Android phone.

    We await Sarah and Louise’s explanation with bated breath...
    Not on my iPhone unfortunately. It;s only picking up new recordings eg the next series recording after the scheduled one has ocurred.
    Hopefully we will get an explanation , unlike the failed recordings fiasco of last year.
  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 27 March 2019, 9:11AM
    Rechecked my schedules this morning, and everything is back on both iPad and Android, except that on both devices:

    (i) HUTH is not there for next Tuesday 2nd April, though Doctors and Countdown, both later on that day, are present. HUTH is also missing from the Guide on the app.

    (ii) Nothing is scheduled for 3rd April, on either Schedule or Guide.

    On the paired T2000 box itself, all these programmes are present, right up and including the 3rd April, except that HUTH (Series Recording on BBC1 HD) is not present for April 2nd, though it is there for the 1st and the 3rd.

    According to Freeview (the app, not the web page, according to which there is practically nothing on TV next week at all) HUTH is scheduled as normal by the BBC at 10:00 on 2nd April.

    It may well be that the HUTH problem, and the other current schedule problems, are two separate issues, of course....
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • scottscott ✭✭✭ Posts: 2,002Member ✭✭✭
    edited 27 March 2019, 9:25AM
    Tim C said:
    Roy said:
    21:17 26/03/2019

    Looks like it’s fixed, on both my iPad and my Android phone.

    We await Sarah and Louise’s explanation with bated breath...
    Not on my iPhone unfortunately. It;s only picking up new recordings eg the next series recording after the scheduled one has ocurred.
    Hopefully we will get an explanation , unlike the failed recordings fiasco of last year.


    @Tim C we did get an explanation -

    https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/7604428/failed-recordings-what-is-going-on/p5


    Sarah said:

    Hi all,

    We've put together some information below to explain some detail behind the issue of the failed recordings. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed some information or data to help us when we were investigating, it's been very much appreciated. 

    Programmes and the accompanying data that describes them (what the next programme is, programme description etc) are batched up and broadcast in different ‘streams’, so some of the BBC channels are in one stream, ITV channels in another etc. To make sure each stream knows about the others, some of the accompanying data, particularly information about what programme is now being broadcast and what comes next is sent on all streams. This information is re-sent at regular intervals.

     

    In this case the information about what is happening on other streams started taking longer to arrive and was timing out when being processed. This led to the Humax layer thinking the information on other streams was invalid and stopped processing it. Therefore, if this time out happened, if you were tuned to a channel on one stream and a recording was due to start on another stream, the current stream wouldn’t know about the programme due to start and wouldn’t give the instruction to make the recording happen.

     

    A change has been  in the Humax layer to make sure that it handles the time out processing better – and continues to process the ‘other stream’ information. This is going through testing and we aiming to roll out as soon as possible.


    Thanks,

    Sarah

  • Tim CTim C ✭✭ Posts: 436Member ✭✭
    scott said:
    Tim C said:
    Roy said:
    21:17 26/03/2019

    Looks like it’s fixed, on both my iPad and my Android phone.

    We await Sarah and Louise’s explanation with bated breath...
    Not on my iPhone unfortunately. It;s only picking up new recordings eg the next series recording after the scheduled one has ocurred.
    Hopefully we will get an explanation , unlike the failed recordings fiasco of last year.


    @Tim C we did get an explanation -

    https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/7604428/failed-recordings-what-is-going-on/p5


    Sarah said:

    Hi all,

    We've put together some information below to explain some detail behind the issue of the failed recordings. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed some information or data to help us when we were investigating, it's been very much appreciated. 

    Programmes and the accompanying data that describes them (what the next programme is, programme description etc) are batched up and broadcast in different ‘streams’, so some of the BBC channels are in one stream, ITV channels in another etc. To make sure each stream knows about the others, some of the accompanying data, particularly information about what programme is now being broadcast and what comes next is sent on all streams. This information is re-sent at regular intervals.

     

    In this case the information about what is happening on other streams started taking longer to arrive and was timing out when being processed. This led to the Humax layer thinking the information on other streams was invalid and stopped processing it. Therefore, if this time out happened, if you were tuned to a channel on one stream and a recording was due to start on another stream, the current stream wouldn’t know about the programme due to start and wouldn’t give the instruction to make the recording happen.

     

    A change has been  in the Humax layer to make sure that it handles the time out processing better – and continues to process the ‘other stream’ information. This is going through testing and we aiming to roll out as soon as possible.


    Thanks,

    Sarah

    The point I was making was that somewhere , someone made a change that caused this incident. It didn't just happen. It was never identified where that change was made or by who and by who I mean which organisation. It was clearly in the stream of data from Youview's servers as units not connected to the internet appeared to be unaffected.

  • Tim CTim C ✭✭ Posts: 436Member ✭✭
    Everything back to normal on my iPhone apps for both my units. :)
  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 27 March 2019, 10:57AM
    Tim C said:
    scott said:
    Tim C said:
    Roy said:
    21:17 26/03/2019

    Looks like it’s fixed, on both my iPad and my Android phone.

    We await Sarah and Louise’s explanation with bated breath...
    Not on my iPhone unfortunately. It;s only picking up new recordings eg the next series recording after the scheduled one has ocurred.
    Hopefully we will get an explanation , unlike the failed recordings fiasco of last year.


    @Tim C we did get an explanation -

    https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/7604428/failed-recordings-what-is-going-on/p5


    Sarah said:

    Hi all,

    We've put together some information below to explain some detail behind the issue of the failed recordings. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed some information or data to help us when we were investigating, it's been very much appreciated. 

    Programmes and the accompanying data that describes them (what the next programme is, programme description etc) are batched up and broadcast in different ‘streams’, so some of the BBC channels are in one stream, ITV channels in another etc. To make sure each stream knows about the others, some of the accompanying data, particularly information about what programme is now being broadcast and what comes next is sent on all streams. This information is re-sent at regular intervals.

     

    In this case the information about what is happening on other streams started taking longer to arrive and was timing out when being processed. This led to the Humax layer thinking the information on other streams was invalid and stopped processing it. Therefore, if this time out happened, if you were tuned to a channel on one stream and a recording was due to start on another stream, the current stream wouldn’t know about the programme due to start and wouldn’t give the instruction to make the recording happen.

     

    A change has been  in the Humax layer to make sure that it handles the time out processing better – and continues to process the ‘other stream’ information. This is going through testing and we aiming to roll out as soon as possible.


    Thanks,

    Sarah

    The point I was making was that somewhere , someone made a change that caused this incident. It didn't just happen. It was never identified where that change was made or by who and by who I mean which organisation. It was clearly in the stream of data from Youview's servers as units not connected to the internet appeared to be unaffected.

    It very likely did ‘just happen’. The information in question is broadcast, not internet-delivered, as metadata in the broadcast stream, and is used for the timing of recordings on channels you aren’t actually tuned to.

    e.g., if you are tuned to BBC2 HD, say, and you have a programme scheduled to record on the Smithsonian channel, then the Present/Following data marker that indicates the transition from one programme on the Smithsonian channel to the next must also be sent out on the BBC2 metadata stream, or boxes that use AR won’t know to fire up the second tuner to get it.

    As more and more channels are added to Freeview - of which Smithsonian is a recent example - the amount of data about ‘other’ channels in that metadata stream grows, and takes longer and longer to transmit, and the Humax boxes weren’t allowing long enough for one full cycle any more.

    But what ‘units not connected to the internet’ are you thinking of that were unaffected by this? Do any of them actually use Present/Following?

    It does seem though, that makers other than Humax were unaffected - Hauwei YouView boxes, Freeview Play recorders made by Panasonic, and so on. I wonder if Humax Freeview Play recorders were similarly affected?

    If not, I expect they all had longer guard times when accepting ‘other’ programmes metadata, something that has now been applied to the Humax YouView boxes.

    Not every problem on a box is down to someone changing something on the box - sometimes the change is in the environment the box operates in, and that breaks something, especially windows of opportunity that gradually become too small.
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 80Member
    Just revisited this thread. All normal again here too. “Shut happens, back soon” (as it said on the door of a cupcake shop in Brighton one night after they were closed). A bit like this YouView experience, I suppose.
  • Tim CTim C ✭✭ Posts: 436Member ✭✭
    When I referred to "other units not connected to the internet" I was referring to Humax Youview boxes. At the time the Youvew box not being internet connected seemed to be a solution , likewise "always on" had a positive effect.
  • LouiseLouise admin Posts: 68Administrator admin
    Hi all,

    We can confirm that this issue has been resolved :smile:

    Louise.
  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks Louise - but what was it?

    Watching my Schedule vanish in front of my very eyes has only reinforced my deep distrust of the cloud....
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 28 March 2019, 6:56PM
    I would also like to mention that besides losing Homes Under the Hammer on the T2000, it also vanished from the T4000, and it is not just that it is scheduled but doesn’t show, it has actually stopped recording, and has been missing since Tuesday, until I put it back from tomorrow.

    Is this related to the above, or a separate issue?

    Can you ask the BBC if they started a whole new Series CRID for HUTH last Tuesday?

    Or can YouView boxes just get so tired of recording the same old same old that they just quit? Though the T2000 has been doing it a lot longer than the T4000 has.....

    I also note that although I put the Series recording of HUTH back last week, it is there April 1, missing April 2, there April 3, and missing April 4, which is as far as things go at present. That is, missing both from the Schedule and from the Guide on the app.

    I can’t look at the actual T2000 YouView box at the moment, as Marie is using it to watch today’s HUTH in High Dudgeon, it having failed to be scheduled to record on the T4000 (blamed on YouView) and she having failed to start the BBC iPlayer to watch it there, instead just getting Netflix (blamed on me somehow, of course)  :p
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • zulu17zulu17 ✭✭ Posts: 950Member ✭✭
    @Roy the BBC do seem by intention or error to be broadcasting on Freeview more than one series of HUTH. 
    looking at the info on a non Youview box for next week the series Crids do differ 


  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    edited 28 March 2019, 11:36PM
    We really do need the YouView box to show CRIDs, don’t we?

    I wonder if some kind soul could implement this for us?

    But thanks, @zulu17, what you report exactly agrees with me having set a Series record for 3FL84W only.

    So I will try a Series record from Tuesday 2nd, and that should get the 2H1J series as well.

    And you have also provided some ammo for @Sarah and @Louise to go back to the BBC with, and get this fixed by the trainee who seems to have been given charge of the BBC at the moment  :p
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • VisionmanVisionman ✭✭✭ Posts: 9,509Member ✭✭✭
    Theres been no public comment on this by the BBC. But its believed the previous EPG incumbent Red Bee had their contract cancelled by the BBC and they moved it in-house. 
    Which caused chaos on every platform out there. Satellite, DTT, Cable and third party online players. It may also explain why YouViews apps went haywire as well (or may not).
  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 80Member
    IOS app on all our devices not showing anything on the Scheduled tab beyond late evening on Tuesday 14 May 2019, despite the T2110 showing several recordings beyond that. T2110 rebooted but no difference on app. Cloud issue? (Again?)
  • Tim CTim C ✭✭ Posts: 436Member ✭✭
    On my T2100 & T4000 both my iPad & iPhone are showing everything correctly with both the Youview app & the TalkTalk TV Planner app.

  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 80Member
    edited 12 May 2019, 9:28AM
    Tim C said:
    On my T2100 & T4000 both my iPad & iPhone are showing everything correctly with both the Youview app & the TalkTalk TV Planner app.

    Thanks for checking. Maybe it’s just me then! Although curiously, since this issue was noticed yesterday, have sent bookings from devices and they have arrived in the schedule on the T2110, but remain missing from the schedule on the devices. Almost like they are failing to sync up. All rebooted but to no avail. Ah well, I expect it will all resolve itself (or not) eventually!
  • RoyRoy ✭✭✭ Posts: 15,208Member ✭✭✭
    @speedyrite

    All good here too, at least on the YouView app paired with my T2000.

    Did your reboots include your phones?

    Try, on one of them at least, deleting and re-adding one of the apps.

    Do not pair it for the moment. Is the schedule complete?

    Now re-pair it. After giving it time to resync with the YouView box, does the schedule stay complete, or does it get truncated again?
    This is not the YouView that I knew  :'(
  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 80Member
    @Roy yes, reboots included all devices.

    Was considering going down the “1. Uninstall software, 2. Dis-assemble your computer/device” route ( 😂 ) but decided to wait and see what happens (and also wait until time permits more extensive troubleshooting)! Especially as, at first glance, it appeared to be a repetition of a previous issue...

    Anyway, thanks for another response that suggests that it’s probably just me/us.

    Will update this again when I have further news of how it gets resolved
  • speedyritespeedyrite Posts: 80Member
    edited 13 May 2019, 3:29PM
    Ok so I tried what @Roy suggested but without pairing it was not possible to view Scheduled or anything else. So then I paired the device to the box. Still the same result - truncated “Scheduled” tab in app on device. BTW I only use the YV app. I’m not a BT or TT customer. Box is BT Retail T2110 on 31.69.0 (Component 3.5.132 (bcf5e4), Platform 4430, ISP config 11). Will now sit back and see what unfolds...
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