Large numbers of channels going missing each time there's a reorganisation of Freeview

jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
in Support
On my DTR-T2110, I've noticed that, every time there's a change of channel ID or deletion of a channel, my box decides to 'lose' the two main commercial multiplexes. For example, yesterday's removal of Keep It Country and the True channels meant that on booting up the box things like Dave and Quest had gone, with no means to bring them back. Before, reorganisations eemed to fix themselves automatically, but it's like at the moment rather than try to work it out, the box is giving up. A regular retune brings everything back, but I'm concerned about the fact that there's no way of 'locking' the old channels in place and attending to this separately.

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Comments

  • SarahSarah Member Posts: 1,812 admin
    Hi @jeawallace

    Welcome to the forum :) 

    Can you please go to the digital UK website and enter your postcode and door number? Once you've done this, please let us know which transmitter you are tuned to, this can be found in the 'Coverage checker results' section at the top of the page. 

    Just to confirm, you are losing certain multiplexes randomly and doing a retune brings them all back? It'd also be useful to know the signal strength and quality of the channels you are frequently losing, this can be found in your settings whilst you're on the channel and pressing the YouView button > Settings > TV Signal Quality.

    Thanks,
    Sarah

  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    I'm tuned to Emley Moor, and this change only happens when there's a reorganisation of Freeview such that the Guide table has to be altered. At that point, any channels on the affected locations that aren't specifically tuned to disappear. This isn't a strength issue as far as I can tell, the aerial reception is actually good enough for me to have to choose between North East and Yorkshire on retuning.
  • SarahSarah Member Posts: 1,812 admin
    Hi @jeawallace
    Thanks for letting me know. We are investigating this at the moment but it would be useful to know the signal strength of these channels as it's helpful for us to know. 

    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    I'll take a look later, I'm not near the set at the moment. Do you want all strengths, or just those that disappear?
  • SarahSarah Member Posts: 1,812 admin
    jeawallace said:
    I'll take a look later, I'm not near the set at the moment. Do you want all strengths, or just those that disappear?
    Mainly the ones that disappear would be useful as it'd be interesting for us to see and compare to what other users are seeing who are also experiencing this issue. 

    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • StevieStevie Member Posts: 4 ✭
    I too am on Emley Moor with my DTR-T2110 and lose the HD channels on 101-105 about once a week. (106-114 all remain OK). The signal strength on all mux's is fine and my TV works OK all the time. Yesterday I lost one of the SD Mux's (can't remember which) and had to do yet another re-tune to get them back. What's up??
  • SarahSarah Member Posts: 1,812 admin
    Hi @Stevie
    We're looking into this at the moment however it would be useful to know the signal strength of the channels which frequently disappear. 
    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    edited 28 June 2019, 9:09PM
    Ok, here's my results all 100 for quality. The C numbers are the channels in terms of frequency.
    * Means a channel that has disappeared at least once following a Freeview reorganization.

    C47 (BBC A) 98 strength 
    C44 (D3 +4) 97
    C41 (BBC B ) 96
    C51*(SDN) 96
    C52*(ArqA) 96
    C48*(ArqB) 97
    C32 (COM7) 93
    C34 (COM8) 93
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    I see there hasn't been any update to this, so I'll add my own. It's been stable for a week now, and coped with the most recent channel additions without any pain, so it makes me wonder if there's something in the software that handles how channel lists change that is throwing things off?
  • SarahSarah Member Posts: 1,812 admin
    Hi @jeawallace,

    Can you please send me a private message (go to my profile and click 'Message') with the following information:
    • Your postcode and door number (so we can confirm your location in relation to the transmitter) 
    • Your box serial number (this can be found in your settings or on the back/bottom of the box) 
    • Your ISP
    • Confirm box model and software version (this can be found by pressing Help and then Info on your remote control)
    • Some examples of channels which disappear
    I understand that you've already posted some of this information but it'd be helpful to have this information all in one message so we have each users examples for our investigation.

    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • sparky2002sparky2002 Member Posts: 7 ✭
    edited 29 July 2019, 10:30AM
    Had similar issues for about 6 months.

    https://community.bt.com/t5/YouView-from-BT/Youview-Box-T2100-Keeps-losing-HD-channels/td-p/1951528

    This thread suggests trying and attenuator. Gonna give it a try.
  • StevieStevie Member Posts: 4 ✭
    Here we are again. Watched TV via youview box last night and no problems. Turned on this morning and HD Channels 101 - 106 missing (107 - 114 all OK). All still OK on TV, aerial fed via youview box. There's definitely something wrong with the youview software since the last update.
  • GoodbyeGoodbye Time out Posts: 336 ✭
    Can their be a more misconstrued word then the dreaded "update"

  • sparky2002sparky2002 Member Posts: 7 ✭
    Attenuator fitted, box retuned. Put itvhd on and altered attenuator for 93% signal quality. Hopefully this will fix it.
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    OK, found a pattern for this (I mentioned it in the PM that was requested, and seemingly ignored, by the support staff). The disappearing channels seem to be due to how Youview attempts to cope with changes to the internal channel list. Normally, if there is a change, the next time you tune in to that multiplex, it gets altered and the list gets repopulated correctly. Right now, it seems that if any of the commercial (non-BBC) multiplexes change, instead of keeping the old list until manually tuned in, the list from that multiplex is just deleted, so you can't tune into that multiplex to pick up the new one.

    Short of reprogramming the thing myself, I'm not sure what else I can do to resolve this, but it seems clear to me that this is less a signal issue, and more a programming one (at least, for my case) No amount of adjusting the aerial will fix this one, but it may do for others.
  • SarahSarah Member Posts: 1,812 admin
    Hi @jeawallace

    Apologies for not getting back to your message, the details were forwarded to our team but I didn't get around to responding to you, I apologise for that. 

    We are still investigating this issue to work out how to resolve it but it's a bit of a tricky one to deal with so it's taking a bit longer than we hoped. I'll post an update here when we get any news to share. 

    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • sparky2002sparky2002 Member Posts: 7 ✭
    jeawallace said:
    OK, found a pattern for this (I mentioned it in the PM that was requested, and seemingly ignored, by the support staff). The disappearing channels seem to be due to how Youview attempts to cope with changes to the internal channel list. Normally, if there is a change, the next time you tune in to that multiplex, it gets altered and the list gets repopulated correctly. Right now, it seems that if any of the commercial (non-BBC) multiplexes change, instead of keeping the old list until manually tuned in, the list from that multiplex is just deleted, so you can't tune into that multiplex to pick up the new one.

    Short of reprogramming the thing myself, I'm not sure what else I can do to resolve this, but it seems clear to me that this is less a signal issue, and more a programming one (at least, for my case) No amount of adjusting the aerial will fix this one, but it may do for others.
    Hope you get sorted.
    Fixed mine. No channel loss since 30 July. Happy days.
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    I think that the fix that was proposed to me will work for now (to ensure the box is fully 'on' when multiplexes change), until there's a proper fix.
  • steviejaysteviejay Member Posts: 43 ✭
    Yeah we were down to 127 TV channels, after retuning have 175. Subscription channels at 79 (unaffected); we don't have any subscriptions :)
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    Just to say there was a configuration change yesterday in my area, I had the box on from 9 am (on standby), and this still happened with deletion, so I'm not sure leaving it on does work, even if it is tuned to a channel on the MUX in question.
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 772 ✭✭
    Have you tried   retuning with the aerial out, to clear the "memory", and then returned with the aerial in. You will have to wait and see on the next update if there is still an issue, but this has worked for other tuning issues, so may be worth a try.
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    I did the very first time it happened, and given the lack of success I haven't bothered since, but I can always try that again and see.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭
    edited 24 August 2019, 2:24PM

    Try an attenuator @jeawallace, as suggested by @sparky2002.

    The common factor in this thread and others, including this one, is Emley Moor. Thanks to @sparky2002 for providing the link.

    Emley Moor is working on a temporary transmitter at the moment, and there have been a number of reports of high signal strength muxes disappearing from receivers tuned to it. A few weeks ago, I discussed the issue with an aerial fitter who was doing some work at our house. He said that the issue is very common, but fitting an attenuator in the aerial lead usually cures the problem. He uses attenuators of fixed value based on readings from his meter, but it is worth trying a variable one.

    The Signal Quality/Strength readings from domestic TV equipment are only intended to be used as a guide, but Signal Quality should be at or very close to 100%. Signal Strength should be lower, with below 90% being a suggested starting point.

  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    That's something I haven't tried, but is worth considering, I know the signal strength is very high. It's the fact that it lines up with configuration changes on the MUXes perfectly that still makes me wonder, but a bit of attenuation wouldn't go amiss to fix some other problems I've had.
  • RHardakerRHardaker Member Posts: 20 ✭
    I've just received my attenuator today so will fit tonight and let you know how it goes.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭
    How did it go with the attenuator @RHardaker?
  • RHardakerRHardaker Member Posts: 20 ✭
    jonesh said:
    How did it go with the attenuator @RHardaker?

    I fitted the attenuator just over 6 weeks ago. I set it so the signal strength was 90%. I had 3 boxes and it ranged from 88% to 91%. Before all had been 100%. Signal quality still 100%. So far not a single issue with channel loss.


  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭
    Good news  :).
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    Following other people's lead, I've added a small attenuator to my setup (to be precise, a signal splitter to take half the feed to another set, knowing that the Your TV change would usually knock out my channel list. It didn't so maybe there's something to the signal strength issue after all? I presume there was nothing in the latest software update connected to this?
  • jeawallacejeawallace Member Posts: 12 ✭
    Just reposting to say that even my attenuation isn't enough to stop this in all cases. It would be nice if future software versions had the option to make the channel rescans optional, rather than just deleting straight from the guide.
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