BT software update 32.47.0 / 3.6.236

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  • Chips2Chips2 Member Posts: 24
    edited 29 August 2020, 10:32PM
    @Mc2 your description of the problem is what I experienced too. The test to see if it is related to the hdmi cable is to change your t2100 bt box video output settings to 1080i. If the signal quality is then 100%, or something a lot more stable, then you know it’s a hdmi interference induced problem.

    Strangely why I experienced this problem recently I’m not sure.  Been using the same cables for years so why this happened only recently I can only guess. Some recent hdmi fault on the youview box? Or perhaps the recent change in Freeview broadcasting to free up spectrum for mobile which changed the frequencies used by TV channels that I normally watch? I don’t know.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭
    mc2 said:
    Chips2 said:
    Hi mc2. What are your signal strength and quality reading on your problem channel?
    The Signal Strength on channels on the BBC B MUX is very erattic, they start at around 50% and then reduce to below 10% and then increase back to around 50%. When I check the Signal Quality when I first tune to a BBC B Mux channel starts at 100% and then gradually reduces to 0% which as you know prompts the ‘No Signal’ message.

    The HDMI Cable fix that worked for you sounds very interesting, it’s Sod’s law that I don’t have another HDMI cable to try but I’ll certainly get hold of one and see if it fixes the problem.

    Regards, M
    @mc2

    Try @John L’s suggestion of 1080i instead of 1080p on the YouView box, which you can do without any new items being needed.

    You can also likewise try ensuring your coax cables are run well away from the HMDI cables.

    If either or both of these steps improves things, you will know you are going to benefit from better shielded HDMI cables, or coax cables, or both, if these are available.
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • mc2mc2 Member Posts: 19
    Roy said:
    mc2 said:
    Chips2 said:
    Hi mc2. What are your signal strength and quality reading on your problem channel?
    The Signal Strength on channels on the BBC B MUX is very erattic, they start at around 50% and then reduce to below 10% and then increase back to around 50%. When I check the Signal Quality when I first tune to a BBC B Mux channel starts at 100% and then gradually reduces to 0% which as you know prompts the ‘No Signal’ message.

    The HDMI Cable fix that worked for you sounds very interesting, it’s Sod’s law that I don’t have another HDMI cable to try but I’ll certainly get hold of one and see if it fixes the problem.

    Regards, M
    @mc2

    Try @John L’s suggestion of 1080i instead of 1080p on the YouView box, which you can do without any new items being needed.

    You can also likewise try ensuring your coax cables are run well away from the HMDI cables.

    If either or both of these steps improves things, you will know you are going to benefit from better shielded HDMI cables, or coax cables, or both, if these are available.
    I have now changed the output to 1080i and, lo and behold, the Signal Strength on BBC B Mux channels are now over 90% and the Signal Quality is 100%!

    Furthermore, after a bit of searching I managed to dig out an old Sky Branded HDMI Cable (It is Pink at one end if that indicates anything?) and replaced the existing HDMI Cable and even with the output set to 1080p the Signal Strength is also over 90% and the Signal Quality is 100%!

    Never in a month of Sunday’s would I have even thought of swapping the HDMI Cable. I was initially going to ask a question on the Plusnet TV section of Plusnet Community Forum but there aren’t very many Staff available to help and it’s also very difficult to get through on the Phone to Plusnet Support. I’m very glad I found the YouView Forum, I didn’t even know it existed until this problem arose.

    Thank you all for the great advice, you’re all stars! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

    Regards, M.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭
    Chips2 said:
    @Mc2 your description of the problem is what I experienced too. The test to see if it is related to the hdmi cable is to change your t2100 bt box video output settings to 1080i. If the signal quality is then 100%, or something a lot more stable, then you know it’s a hdmi interference induced problem.

    Strangely why I experienced this problem recently I’m not sure.  Been using the same cables for years so why this happened only recently I can only guess. Some recent hdmi fault on the youview box? Or perhaps the recent change in Freeview broadcasting to free up spectrum for mobile which changed the frequencies used by TV channels that I normally watch? I don’t know.
    @Chips2 @mc2 @John L etc.

    I’m going to guess it’s the spectrum changes. And that while lower quality HDMI cables have always radiated interference - we’ve had the occasional case of this reported on the Community - it is suddenly the case that at 1080p the fundamental, or a harmonic overtone, more or less accurately targets the BBC B multiplex. Possibly just on certain transmitters, possibly on them all. Or possibly on other multiplexes on other transmitters when the same channel, in the 21-60 sense, is being used.

    The frequencies are here:-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies#United_Kingdom,_Ireland,_Hong_Kong,_Macau,_Falkland_Islands_and_Southern_Africa

    Somebody in YouView or the Community could perhaps do the maths on this to see if it stacks up - I wouldn’t know how to do the calculation myself, but it is something that ought to be doable.

    But there still remains the question of why the YouView box should be especially vulnerable to this, and TVs in general don’t seem to be. Something to do with the YouView box being an HDMI source device, and TVs being HDMI sink devices, perhaps?

    Either way, I think that someone at YouView Towers could usefully spend some time on the physics behind this, on our behalf, and make some recommendations accordingly.

    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • mc2mc2 Member Posts: 19
    edited 30 August 2020, 9:26AM
    I’ve been having a think about when the issues I encountered with the BBC B Mux started.  It could well have happened after the retune event on 12 August 2020 and, while I didn’t notice the problem for quite some time after the retune date, I think it’s a safe bet that that’s when the problems started.

    Fancy that, all we had to do is change the HDMI cable!  It just didn’t even occur to me to do so. Once again, thank you all for the superb advice, I shall definitely be checking the YouView Forum in future, I genuinely didn’t even know there was a YouView Forum!  Regards, M.
  • Chips2Chips2 Member Posts: 24
    edited 30 August 2020, 10:30AM
    Still rock solid.

    Yes I’m fairly confident it’s spectrum changes too. However, I’ll leave the maths up to Youview Towers :smile: Roy. I’m a digital electronic engineer myself but never did get on with the analogue and RF side of electronics.

    I wonder if anyone on here has a non youview box (Panasonic, Manhattan etc) to see if they experience the same issue? Perhaps even a humax box which isn’t a t2100?

    I do think my bt t2100 is a great pvr. Considering it’s 6 years old, and the tech in it even older, it’s still has a very snappy UI. Perhaps testament to the software engineers. It does have these quirks now and again. My previous issue to this was my old Plasma TV (obviously now replaced with a newer tech TV) interfering with the youview box IR reception. That took some debug too. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 August 2020, 4:50PM
    Hi Chips2

    You said: My previous issue to this was my old Plasma TV (obviously now replaced with a newer tech TV) interfering with the youview box IR reception. That took some debug too. 
    Have you seen this current thread?


    I reckon you might well be able to contribute here, and help uphold the awesomeness of the support this Community provides 😛
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • Chips2Chips2 Member Posts: 24
    Yea no problem at all Roy. I’ve responded in the other thread.
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 659 ✭✭
    edited 30 August 2020, 8:29PM
    Hi chips2,
    I did test my Panasonic pvr and this proved more reliable withstanding interference than the Youview pvr. Using the signal strength/ quality readings on menu I found recently that it only flutated slightly - approx. 95% quality signal when one of the boxes was switched from 1080i to p. So I would agree with Roy regarding hdmi theory. I also think the mass production quality of circuit boards for TV hdmi might have some bearing. I'm no engineer, just practical, logical thinking, I will leave the experts at Youview to investigate. I think the Youview hardware might be more sensitive to interference, as Roy mentions above about BBC multiplex signal. 

    I think to conclude a lot is crammed into back of TV hdmi inputs and it can overload the shielding in some cases. Something hopefully going forwards that designers should improve in the design, but this might not be possible with various old and new equipment being used side by side. John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • Chips2Chips2 Member Posts: 24
    @John L Yes I think the theory is a sound one. I wonder how many people are experiencing this same issue but won’t know of or discover this forum. I can’t see BT or PlusNet etc being that technically helpful on this ?

    BTW. Does anyone know if the UHD BT box is any good? As in more recent hardware and perhaps even better UI navigation speed? Especially in the app navigation as although the t2100 has a reasonably fast UI the apps are pretty sluggish. And whether it’s reliable? Just wondering in case I ever need to replace my box for whatever reason.
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭
    The fact that this issue has been resolved by replacing the HDMI cables suggests that the problem lies with the cables, not the hardware.
    When you did the comparison test between the Youview recorder and the Panasonic, did you use the same cables with each and ensure that they were in the same physical place in your setup?
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 659 ✭✭
    Hi jonesh,
    yes used same leads and in same position etc. The cables weren't replaced. I am still using the same cables and now no interference since plugging all hdmi cables into cinema amp instead of TV hdmi. I have used a more expensive hdmi cable with no improvement when testing before with TV hdmi and now cinema amp. Perhaps the high end ones are better? But anyway, for me the problem is solved (fingers crossed!)

    John L

    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭
    What you are paying for with more expensive cables is better materials, better insulation, better shielding, better terminations, and/or often a generous helping of snake oil.

    The trick is to get the first four without the fifth 😛
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭
    Hi @John L 
    Your thorough testing suggests that the HDMI issue that you experienced was somewhat different from the one reported by @Chips2 and @mc2, but you nailed it.
    The aerial socket on TVs is usually situated some distance away from the HDMI sockets, but your research indicates that the EMR from an active HDMI socket can interfere with the signal from the aerial.
    This reinforces the need for a decent aerial flylead as well as good quality HDMI leads.
    There is no need to use high end cables. Snake oil is expensive stuff :).
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 659 ✭✭
    edited 31 August 2020, 9:41PM
    Hi jonesh,
    On the Samsung the aerial socket is right next to the 4 hdmi sockets. We have 3 Samsung's and they are all very similar layout. Ideally they should locate the aerial socket further from hdmi sockets. I also tried various aerial flyleads, including making my own ones from thicker aerial cable and high quality coax plugs, still no difference, but problems solved now.
    John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭
    edited 31 August 2020, 9:41PM
    Chips2 said:

    BTW. Does anyone know if the UHD BT box is any good? As in more recent hardware and perhaps even better UI navigation speed? Especially in the app navigation as although the t2100 has a reasonably fast UI the apps are pretty sluggish. And whether it’s reliable? Just wondering in case I ever need to replace my box for whatever reason.
    I’ve got a T4000. On paper, it’s faster, but I don’t notice much difference between it and my T2000. The 4K apps should be an advantage, but my TV has these anyway. I don’t hear bad things about the reliability of T4000s, and certainly ours has given us no trouble.

    One slight disappointment is that I find the upscaling it does is observably inferior to the upscaling my 4K TV does, so I run it in HD, making its 4K a bit wasted 🙁
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭
    I just checked our Samsung and the aerial socket is situated well away from the HDMI strip. I assumed that they were all the same, but clearly not.
    Pleased that you solved your problem.
  • mc2mc2 Member Posts: 19
    Chips2 said:
    Still rock solid.

    Yes I’m fairly confident it’s spectrum changes too. However, I’ll leave the maths up to Youview Towers :smile: Roy. I’m a digital electronic engineer myself but never did get on with the analogue and RF side of electronics.

    I wonder if anyone on here has a non youview box (Panasonic, Manhattan etc) to see if they experience the same issue? Perhaps even a humax box which isn’t a t2100?

    I do think my bt t2100 is a great pvr. Considering it’s 6 years old, and the tech in it even older, it’s still has a very snappy UI. Perhaps testament to the software engineers. It does have these quirks now and again. My previous issue to this was my old Plasma TV (obviously now replaced with a newer tech TV) interfering with the youview box IR reception. That took some debug too. 
    Same here, it’s been rock solid 100% Signal Quality since changing the HDMI Cable 😀
  • Chips2Chips2 Member Posts: 24
    Thanks Roy for your experience on the t4000. My one and only real issue with the t2100 are the apps. Like I say the UI generally is very good but the apps are sluggish to navigate and a recent use of the NowTv app for streaming sport was frequently freezing and losing sound. Nothing to do with my internet as I debugged that as not the issue. Seems to be more a problem of app implementation or an underpowered box (in terms of old tech). Seems like the t4000 isn’t much better on the app front. Yea I use my TV for apps too but TVs do seem to drop support over the medium term in my experience so was wondering about the t4000 as an option rather than a streaming dongle/box. Not an issue now but I’m planning ahead for when it happens - more likely I’ll get a roku or something similar probably.  I’m keeping an eye open for the yet to be released new chromecast which is rumoured to be more like a streaming box rather than a casting supporting dongle.
  • I have the update on a DTR2110. It seems to have introduced a new problem where the "Too Many Recordings" screen appears and there is no clean way out of it. I don't know if this is related to the Clash Management or Split Recording problems mentioned in the update. 

    The heading "Too Many Recordings" appears, with the message "To watch <channel name>, you'll have to cancel one of the following recordings", along with two cancel options and a "Back" option.  You can only select the first channel option. Any attempts to move the focus to the other options or "back" result in the highlight moving straight back to the first option. 

    I'm not sure about the exact circumstances leading up to this bug as I wasn't there when it has happened, but the only way out is to cancel one or more of the recordings. I think the box used to simply retune to one of the channels being recorded, dumping any chase play buffer on the "watched" channel.

    Anyone else seen anything similar?

    BTW the discussion above re cable interference was very interesting to me (I have a similar problem); perhaps it could be moved to its own topic with a suitable title so that fellow sufferers can find it?



  • SarahSarah Administrator Posts: 1,622 admin
    I have the update on a DTR2110. It seems to have introduced a new problem where the "Too Many Recordings" screen appears and there is no clean way out of it. I don't know if this is related to the Clash Management or Split Recording problems mentioned in the update. 

    The heading "Too Many Recordings" appears, with the message "To watch <channel name>, you'll have to cancel one of the following recordings", along with two cancel options and a "Back" option.  You can only select the first channel option. Any attempts to move the focus to the other options or "back" result in the highlight moving straight back to the first option. 

    I'm not sure about the exact circumstances leading up to this bug as I wasn't there when it has happened, but the only way out is to cancel one or more of the recordings. I think the box used to simply retune to one of the channels being recorded, dumping any chase play buffer on the "watched" channel.

    Anyone else seen anything similar?

    BTW the discussion above re cable interference was very interesting to me (I have a similar problem); perhaps it could be moved to its own topic with a suitable title so that fellow sufferers can find it?



    Hi @LastPintDave9
    We aren't aware of an issue like this at the moment so I've raised it with the relevant people here to look into. If this happens again and you know the steps to recreate this, please let us know and I can add this detail to what I've already sent over :) 
    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭
    jonesh said:
    I just checked our Samsung and the aerial socket is situated well away from the HDMI strip. I assumed that they were all the same, but clearly not.
    Pleased that you solved your problem.
    Yes, we have four Samsung TVs, from 2012 through 2019, and all have the TV aerial input about as far from the HDMI ports as is feasible. The one exception is the fifth set, from 2015, with its One Connect box where the aerial In is only 3.5 centimetres from the HDMI ports, and there is a USB port in that gap.
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • John LJohn L Member, Super User Posts: 659 ✭✭
    edited 8 September 2020, 6:19PM
    We can all get our tape measures out (!) , but the HDMI & the aerial sockets are still too near on my 3 Samsung tv's. I have tv's from 2014 to 2019. You have also got to remember that when you connect all the HDMI cables together, they will add up in interference from tv. The aerial lead as much as you try to keep it away from HDMI cables will pick up some interference?

    From my own problem on my main tv is now solved by re-routing to Cinema Amp - no problems for nearly 4 weeks. Yes, I agree pay more for better HDMI shielded cables . . . I actually did for a test & it didn't work for me. I purchased one of these from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01BKOA0RC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

    Maybe I should have purchased one from the high end ones like QED, but problem has now been resolved. I might purchase better cables for other tv's at a later date. Can anyone recommend any that are not too expensive? Interference problem only starts when Freesat pvr is used. I'm not going to take another look behind my tv's to check distance again (!). John L
    Can't wait for the day when Youview get rid of the dreaded darkened banner when using fast forward/rewind recordings. 
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭
    edited 8 September 2020, 11:09PM
    John L said:
    We can all get our tape measures out (!) , but the HDMI & the aerial sockets are still too near on my 3 Samsung tv's. I have tv's from 2014 to 2019. You have also got to remember that when you connect all the HDMI cables together, they will add up in interference from tv. The aerial lead as much as you try to keep it away from HDMI cables will pick up some interference?

    From my own problem on my main tv is now solved by re-routing to Cinema Amp - no problems for nearly 4 weeks. Yes, I agree pay more for better HDMI shielded cables . . . I actually did for a test & it didn't work for me. I purchased one of these from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01BKOA0RC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

    Maybe I should have purchased one from the high end ones like QED, but problem has now been resolved. I might purchase better cables for other tv's at a later date. Can anyone recommend any that are not too expensive? Interference problem only starts when Freesat pvr is used. I'm not going to take another look behind my tv's to check distance again (!). John L
    100 ±2·5mm, centre of bottom HDMI socket to centre of aerial socket :) .
    I suppose that interference from HDMI leads could be additive if you had two or more more sources on at the same time, but you wouldn't normally do that. 
    AmazonBasics leads are as good as any for the price, particularly if you opt to buy one of their multipacks.
    According to this report, Jeff Bezos' personal wealth increased by $13bn in one day in July :#.
  • Steve_ASteve_A Member Posts: 1
    I have the update on a DTR2110. It seems to have introduced a new problem where the "Too Many Recordings" screen appears and there is no clean way out of it. I don't know if this is related to the Clash Management or Split Recording problems mentioned in the update. 

    The heading "Too Many Recordings" appears, with the message "To watch <channel name>, you'll have to cancel one of the following recordings", along with two cancel options and a "Back" option.  You can only select the first channel option. Any attempts to move the focus to the other options or "back" result in the highlight moving straight back to the first option. 

    I'm not sure about the exact circumstances leading up to this bug as I wasn't there when it has happened, but the only way out is to cancel one or more of the recordings. I think the box used to simply retune to one of the channels being recorded, dumping any chase play buffer on the "watched" channel.

    Anyone else seen anything similar?

    BTW the discussion above re cable interference was very interesting to me (I have a similar problem); perhaps it could be moved to its own topic with a suitable title so that fellow sufferers can find it?



    Yes, I have had the same thing happen twice since the latest software update.  It seems to do this when it can't stay on a particular mux. As you say, in the past it has moved to to one of your recordings instead of showing this message. It is impossible to select anything other than cancel the first recording - very annoying. 

    In at least one of these cases it was when I was watching another recorded programme.  It is definitely a new bug that has started happening since the latest update. Hope we get it fixed soon.

    Steve
  • Ann6Ann6 Member Posts: 3
    Steve_A said:
    I have the update on a DTR2110. It seems to have introduced a new problem where the "Too Many Recordings" screen appears and there is no clean way out of it. I don't know if this is related to the Clash Management or Split Recording problems mentioned in the update. 

    The heading "Too Many Recordings" appears, with the message "To watch <channel name>, you'll have to cancel one of the following recordings", along with two cancel options and a "Back" option.  You can only select the first channel option. Any attempts to move the focus to the other options or "back" result in the highlight moving straight back to the first option. 

    I'm not sure about the exact circumstances leading up to this bug as I wasn't there when it has happened, but the only way out is to cancel one or more of the recordings. I think the box used to simply retune to one of the channels being recorded, dumping any chase play buffer on the "watched" channel.

    Anyone else seen anything similar?

    BTW the discussion above re cable interference was very interesting to me (I have a similar problem); perhaps it could be moved to its own topic with a suitable title so that fellow sufferers can find it?



    Yes, I have had the same thing happen twice since the latest software update.  It seems to do this when it can't stay on a particular mux. As you say, in the past it has moved to to one of your recordings instead of showing this message. It is impossible to select anything other than cancel the first recording - very annoying. 

    In at least one of these cases it was when I was watching another recorded programme.  It is definitely a new bug that has started happening since the latest update. Hope we get it fixed soon.

    Steve
    I've seen this 2 or 3 times on my 2110 in the last few weeks too. Always when there ends up being 2 concurrent live recordings whilst I'm watching an existing recording and then I stop watching that recording.

    Happened earlier and I took a note of the details to report. I had been watching BBC News, watched a recording and whilst I was watching this, recordings started on CBS Justice and Ch5. When I stopped the recording I'd been watching, I got the message at the top saying I had too many recordings in progress and had to change the channel (or something to that effect), the Recordings screen closed (another annoying side effect that's been introduced at some point - I'm more likely to watch a recording I already have than an in progress recording on a live channel so would prefer to stay in the Recordings screen to make another selection), and I got the "Too many recordings" menu. The channel had changed to CBS Justice (also first option on the menu) but I couldn't get out of the menu using any function on the remote. I did also notice that the channel on "To watch channel <channel>..." was flashing between BBC News and BBC One, initially automatically and then appeared to be triggered when I was pressing buttons on the remote. I had been watching BBC One before BBC News but perhaps that's just a coincidence.

    It's an annoying one which essentially leaves you unable to use the box. I just put it on standby for a while and the menu was gone when I switched it back on, even though both recordings were still running.
  • Hi Ann6, 
    I recognise the scenario you describe of 2 concurrent recordings in progress and stopping playback of a recorded program, when this problem is seen.
    Also I have seen the symptom of the message flashing between 2 channels - also BBC1 and BBC News here - when I saw this. I've got some video of this happening, but the forum won't allow me to post it.
    Of course, it's sod's law that we haven't seen this problem since I posted above, so I can't add any more detail or info.
  • RobertsPJRobertsPJ Member Posts: 7

    I'm using this software on a T2100. I've noticed a few issues.

    The box sometime locks up - and only the on/off button on the remote and on the box appear to work. But when it is turned off/on it hasn't gone to sleep. The only way to get it responding to the buttons is to power cycle.

    More alarmingly I lost all my schedule recordings - the timetable so to speak. Usually sit down on Sunday and program for the week. Last night I thought the box had been quiet - no red light to say recording and when I checked the schedule recordings there was only a single series recording planned of Roadkill. Um.....first time this has happened.

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭
    8 years in, and still a Johnny-come-lately with ten people getting the badge before me!
  • leilabdleilabd Member Posts: 2
    I've been having the signal quality 0% irritating popups for ages on my T2100 on what I now know is the D3&4 Mux from Long Mountain. Thought I was going to have to get a new aerial but I've now set the video quality down to 1080i and signal quality is 100%! I'll play around with HDMI cables at some point but really happy for now. (As so often happens, I was actually looking for the answer to an entirely different problem when I found this thread.) Thank you very much everyone.
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