Humax Retail Software Update - New Home Screen

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Comments

  • countryman2countryman2 Member Posts: 48
    edited April 24
    I don't recall being asked to read them when I first switched on my Humax, Roy.  Or specifically accepting them.  Where are they stored ?  On my Humax box ?
  • joneshjonesh Member, Super User Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭
    I asked Support for the IP address but I now see that request has been deleted.  Rather pointless as I can still find out the IP address with a bit of effort.  I really detest the 'Nanny Knows Best' attitude.
    Are you referring to this request @countryman2?
    https://community.youview.com/youview/discussion/comment/19009665/#Comment_19009665
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,999 ✭✭✭
    @countryman2

    Acceptance of the T&Cs will have been part of the initial setup. They are available there to read, IIRC, but YouView can hardly force you to read them.

    If you would like to read them now:-

    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/about-youview/youview-terms-of-use-part-1-terms-and-conditions/

    What you were asking is probably covered by 5.2.6; you might well be able to claim the ‘permitted by law’ exemption, if you can find the applicable law, but you can perhaps see from this clause that YouView were never going to help you do something that is rather outside their design intentions.

    Much as over the years YouView have been deaf to requests that we should be able to turn updates off if we want to, which spiking these URLs would be a backdoor way of achieving.

    And for the consequences of such things, with the propensity for users shooting themselves in the foot and then blaming the device provider for their problems, and the increased support burden such activity produces, look up ‘pihole’ in the Now(TV) community.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Tim CTim C Member, Super User Posts: 586 ✭✭
    Nearly all my electronic devices - TVs, Recorders, Phones, computers etc allow ME to control when updates are applied.
    Whilst it maybe in the T&Cs it's pretty poor in my view that Youview doesn't allow the option to suspend updates.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,999 ✭✭✭
    Tim C said:
    Nearly all my electronic devices - TVs, Recorders, Phones, computers etc allow ME to control when updates are applied.
    Whilst it maybe in the T&Cs it's pretty poor in my view that Youview doesn't allow the option to suspend updates.
    @Tim C

    Its well worth contrasting the responses to queries about YouView boxes on here, and to queries about Sony TVs with YouView on the Sony Community.

    Support response 1 there is almost always ‘Have you installed the latest update?’; something you never see on here, as those who have defeated the update process know that they must bear any consequences for themselves.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • countryman2countryman2 Member Posts: 48
    Roy said:
    @countryman2

    Acceptance of the T&Cs will have been part of the initial setup. They are available there to read, IIRC, but YouView can hardly force you to read them.

    If you would like to read them now:-

    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/about-youview/youview-terms-of-use-part-1-terms-and-conditions/

    What you were asking is probably covered by 5.2.6; you might well be able to claim the ‘permitted by law’ exemption, if you can find the applicable law, but you can perhaps see from this clause that YouView were never going to help you do something that is rather outside their design intentions.

    Much as over the years YouView have been deaf to requests that we should be able to turn updates off if we want to, which spiking these URLs would be a backdoor way of achieving.

    And for the consequences of such things, with the propensity for users shooting themselves in the foot and then blaming the device provider for their problems, and the increased support burden such activity produces, look up ‘pihole’ in the Now(TV) community.
    There is a world of difference to me being able to decide whether or not I wish an update to happen on MY machine and someone messing about with something like PiHole.  Surely you can see that ?
  • countryman2countryman2 Member Posts: 48
    Roy said:
    Tim C said:
    Nearly all my electronic devices - TVs, Recorders, Phones, computers etc allow ME to control when updates are applied.
    Whilst it maybe in the T&Cs it's pretty poor in my view that Youview doesn't allow the option to suspend updates.
    @Tim C

    Its well worth contrasting the responses to queries about YouView boxes on here, and to queries about Sony TVs with YouView on the Sony Community.

    Support response 1 there is almost always ‘Have you installed the latest update?’; something you never see on here, as those who have defeated the update process know that they must bear any consequences for themselves.
    But that is totally different from what Tim and I are asking for.  

    There is also another very good reason why we should be able to decide when and if our boxes are updated and that is what might happen part way through the update process.  Power cut, for example.  
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,999 ✭✭✭
    Roy said:
    @countryman2

    Acceptance of the T&Cs will have been part of the initial setup. They are available there to read, IIRC, but YouView can hardly force you to read them.

    If you would like to read them now:-

    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/about-youview/youview-terms-of-use-part-1-terms-and-conditions/

    What you were asking is probably covered by 5.2.6; you might well be able to claim the ‘permitted by law’ exemption, if you can find the applicable law, but you can perhaps see from this clause that YouView were never going to help you do something that is rather outside their design intentions.

    Much as over the years YouView have been deaf to requests that we should be able to turn updates off if we want to, which spiking these URLs would be a backdoor way of achieving.

    And for the consequences of such things, with the propensity for users shooting themselves in the foot and then blaming the device provider for their problems, and the increased support burden such activity produces, look up ‘pihole’ in the Now(TV) community.
    There is a world of difference to me being able to decide whether or not I wish an update to happen on MY machine and someone messing about with something like PiHole.  Surely you can see that ?
    @countryman2

    Well, I was going to say ‘yes’, and clarify that I meant only that when you go off-piste, as it were, you can’t expect the same guidance and support you get when on-piste, so you have to know what you are doing.

    But having had a closer look at Pi-Hole, it seems exactly the same as what you want to do, except that you want to block some outgoing traffic, and Pi-Hole blocks some incoming traffic.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,999 ✭✭✭
    edited April 25
    Roy said:
    Tim C said:
    Nearly all my electronic devices - TVs, Recorders, Phones, computers etc allow ME to control when updates are applied.
    Whilst it maybe in the T&Cs it's pretty poor in my view that Youview doesn't allow the option to suspend updates.
    @Tim C

    Its well worth contrasting the responses to queries about YouView boxes on here, and to queries about Sony TVs with YouView on the Sony Community.

    Support response 1 there is almost always ‘Have you installed the latest update?’; something you never see on here, as those who have defeated the update process know that they must bear any consequences for themselves.
    But that is totally different from what Tim and I are asking for.  

    There is also another very good reason why we should be able to decide when and if our boxes are updated and that is what might happen part way through the update process.  Power cut, for example.  
    @countryman2
    @“Tim C”

    Yes, but I wasn’t talking about what you were asking for, I was talking about the consequences of what you were asking for. 

    Think about its effect on the support landscape. For YouView, there are many different devices to support, so there is a two-dimensional landscape here, but very little depth, and that only temporary during roll-outs, when some of a certain device are on the new release, and some still on the previous release.

    Once users are allowed to stay on older releases, that depth dimension expands under each device to encompass all those older releases, with the consequences that release level is no longer a given, and must be queried when giving support, and its implications taken into account.

    I do enterprise-level tech support for a living, where we have to consider a range of versions for a certain piece of software, though we, or the suppliers, do set a cutoff and don’t/won’t support the oldest versions.

    YouView set a premium on simplicity, and only ever supporting one, or at most two, releases, embodies that simplicity, albeit at the cost of your flexibility.

    Choosing when to accept a new release is a consideration, of course, and something much valued in Windows. But if you can predict when power cuts are going to happen, and so avoid those times when planning to update, I wish you would share with us how that is done.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • countryman2countryman2 Member Posts: 48
    Roy said:
    @countryman2

    Acceptance of the T&Cs will have been part of the initial setup. They are available there to read, IIRC, but YouView can hardly force you to read them.

    If you would like to read them now:-

    https://support.youview.com/youview-box/about-youview/youview-terms-of-use-part-1-terms-and-conditions/

    What you were asking is probably covered by 5.2.6; you might well be able to claim the ‘permitted by law’ exemption, if you can find the applicable law, but you can perhaps see from this clause that YouView were never going to help you do something that is rather outside their design intentions.

    Much as over the years YouView have been deaf to requests that we should be able to turn updates off if we want to, which spiking these URLs would be a backdoor way of achieving.

    And for the consequences of such things, with the propensity for users shooting themselves in the foot and then blaming the device provider for their problems, and the increased support burden such activity produces, look up ‘pihole’ in the Now(TV) community.
    There is NOTHING in the T's and C's, Roy.   The clause you mention ..5.2.6..."disassemble, reverse engineer or otherwise decompile the YouView device, "  Blocking an IP address is NOT any of those.
  • countryman2countryman2 Member Posts: 48
    Roy said:
    Roy said:
    Tim C said:
    Nearly all my electronic devices - TVs, Recorders, Phones, computers etc allow ME to control when updates are applied.
    Whilst it maybe in the T&Cs it's pretty poor in my view that Youview doesn't allow the option to suspend updates.
    @Tim C

    Its well worth contrasting the responses to queries about YouView boxes on here, and to queries about Sony TVs with YouView on the Sony Community.

    Support response 1 there is almost always ‘Have you installed the latest update?’; something you never see on here, as those who have defeated the update process know that they must bear any consequences for themselves.
    But that is totally different from what Tim and I are asking for.  

    There is also another very good reason why we should be able to decide when and if our boxes are updated and that is what might happen part way through the update process.  Power cut, for example.  
    @countryman2
    @“Tim C”

    Yes, but I wasn’t talking about what you were asking for, I was talking about the consequences of what you were asking for. 

    Think about its effect on the support landscape. For YouView, there are many different devices to support, so there is a two-dimensional landscape here, but very little depth, and that only temporary during roll-outs, when some of a certain device are on the new release, and some still on the previous release.

    Once users are allowed to stay on older releases, that depth dimension expands under each device to encompass all those older releases, with the consequences that release level is no longer a given, and must be queried when giving support, and its implications taken into account.

    I do enterprise-level tech support for a living, where we have to consider a range of versions for a certain piece of software, though we, or the suppliers, do set a cutoff and don’t/won’t support the oldest versions.

    YouView set a premium on simplicity, and only ever supporting one, or at most two, releases, embodies that simplicity, albeit at the cost of your flexibility.

    Choosing when to accept a new release is a consideration, of course, and something much valued in Windows. But if you can predict when power cuts are going to happen, and so avoid those times when planning to update, I wish you would share with us how that is done.
    Ever heard of a UPS, Roy ?  
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,999 ✭✭✭
    @countryman2 said:-

    There is NOTHING in the T's and C's, Roy.   The clause you mention ..5.2.6..."disassemble, reverse engineer or otherwise decompile the YouView device, "  Blocking an IP address is NOT any of those.

    But Wiresharking to discover what IP addresses to block is.

    Anyway, if what you are seeking is kosher, @Sarah will no doubt be along shortly to respond to that posting of yours which, contrary to earlier reports, still seems to be alive and well.

    @countryman2 also said:-

    Ever heard of a UPS, Roy ?  

    which I take to be a rhetorical question.

    So, have you got your whole house, or just selected devices, on hot failover?

    Or just a UPS you dig out for mission-critical tasks?

    Thiugh actually, given the strategy employed, I reckon you could blip a YouView box in mid-update, and it would carry right on when the power was restored, even if it had to start the update again,
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • countryman2countryman2 Member Posts: 48
    Roy said:
    @countryman2 said:-

    There is NOTHING in the T's and C's, Roy.   The clause you mention ..5.2.6..."disassemble, reverse engineer or otherwise decompile the YouView device, "  Blocking an IP address is NOT any of those.

    But Wiresharking to discover what IP addresses to block is.

    Anyway, if what you are seeking is kosher, @Sarah will no doubt be along shortly to respond to that posting of yours which, contrary to earlier reports, still seems to be alive and well.

    @countryman2 also said:-

    Ever heard of a UPS, Roy ?  

    which I take to be a rhetorical question.

    So, have you got your whole house, or just selected devices, on hot failover?

    Or just a UPS you dig out for mission-critical tasks?

    Thiugh actually, given the strategy employed, I reckon you could blip a YouView box in mid-update, and it would carry right on when the power was restored, even if it had to start the update again,
    No it is NOT reverse engineering.  Definition : Reverse engineering is taking apart an object to see how it works in order to duplicate or enhance the object. 

    I'm not attempting to take it apart.

    Of course my whole house isn't on a UPS as you might expect.  You're either deliberately being disingenuous or obtuse. You know very well that if I wanted to update my Humax at a time of MY choosing then I could temporarily plug it into a UPS. 

    Picking up on your "levels of support issue"...so you're in Helpdesk support for a large organisation.  The complexity and sheer size of your IT estate is probably light years ahead from that of a small Humax box. I should know as I was IT Director of a FT 100 company for many years and still have the scars.  The level of support engendered by YouView boxes is minimal as far as YouView are concerned since, apart from the community, as far as I can see there IS no support.  So the issue of dealing with an estate of machines at varying update level is irrelevant.


  • Tim CTim C Member, Super User Posts: 586 ✭✭
    My issue with forced updates from Youview has always been the significant interface changes that get applied without warning - ok we on this forum or BT's may know about them - and without any way (for most users) of preventing them.

    I've no real issue with bug fixes, of which there have been many, being applied but not fundamental design changes.

    I do understand that Youview is not primarily a retail product and therefore changes might be required by the driving forces.

    I've currently 2 Panasonic TVs and 2 Panasonic recorders and have had others in the past and the updates that have arrived , of which there have been very few , have not changed the look or feel of the units so what I have now is what I bought in the first place. I'm not suggesting that the Panasonic devices have user interfaces that all would like but they have never changed and that's the key thing for me.
    Likewise Humax for their non-Youview devices don't change much of the UI and the big UI update for the FVP range was optional if I recall.
    I'm sure that many other manufacturers operate similarily to Panasonic & Humax.

    I will continue to block any more updates which I know is at my own risk @Roy . I think that was basically what you were saying.

    I don't think I've anything further to add on this topic.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,999 ✭✭✭
    edited April 26
    Roy said:
    @countryman2 said:-

    There is NOTHING in the T's and C's, Roy.   The clause you mention ..5.2.6..."disassemble, reverse engineer or otherwise decompile the YouView device, "  Blocking an IP address is NOT any of those.

    But Wiresharking to discover what IP addresses to block is.

    Anyway, if what you are seeking is kosher, @Sarah will no doubt be along shortly to respond to that posting of yours which, contrary to earlier reports, still seems to be alive and well.

    @countryman2 also said:-

    Ever heard of a UPS, Roy ?  

    which I take to be a rhetorical question.

    So, have you got your whole house, or just selected devices, on hot failover?

    Or just a UPS you dig out for mission-critical tasks?

    Thiugh actually, given the strategy employed, I reckon you could blip a YouView box in mid-update, and it would carry right on when the power was restored, even if it had to start the update again,
    No it is NOT reverse engineering.  Definition : Reverse engineering is taking apart an object to see how it works in order to duplicate or enhance the object. 

    I'm not attempting to take it apart.

    Of course my whole house isn't on a UPS as you might expect.  You're either deliberately being disingenuous or obtuse. You know very well that if I wanted to update my Humax at a time of MY choosing then I could temporarily plug it into a UPS. 

    Picking up on your "levels of support issue"...so you're in Helpdesk support for a large organisation.  The complexity and sheer size of your IT estate is probably light years ahead from that of a small Humax box. I should know as I was IT Director of a FT 100 company for many years and still have the scars.  The level of support engendered by YouView boxes is minimal as far as YouView are concerned since, apart from the community, as far as I can see there IS no support.  So the issue of dealing with an estate of machines at varying update level is irrelevant.


    @countryman2

    That’s a very narrow, and for me inaccurate, definition of reverse engineering, though I can see it is quite prevalent on the internet.

    Me though, I prefer Wikipedia’s take on it:-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_engineering

    And dIsingenuous rather than obtuse. Something you started with your UPS ‘query’. 

    Also, I hope you would plug your router into the UPS as well, to avoid those ‘hang on, this laptop is battery backed, but....’ moments when a power cut takes your mains out, and your screen is still running, but it’s not communicating any more.... 😢

    And yes, YouView customer support is about down to just the Community, but as I am sure you will know from your FT100 company experience, anyone developing new software has to allow for all the old versions out there of the software and devices being developed for. Which is why services like the BBC iPlayer and NowTV convulse every so often and decline to support legacy versions and devices from a few years back any more, given the permutations and limitations they involve. Usually to howls of protest from the diehards still running that kit.

    And you can probably recall the dim view you used to take of anybody pushing the envelope of the things in your domain.....
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • SarahSarah Administrator Posts: 1,777 admin
    Hi all, 

    A software update is available which will make the new Home Screen available to all T2000 devices. The release also contains the addition of Live Events within the Sports area. More info on this release can be found here.

    Thanks,
    Sarah
  • antman666antman666 Member Posts: 2
    My box just updated to the new menu today. Can not say I like it and it has crashed the box once forcing me to remove power to restart the box. Can't we have the old menu back (MUCH better)
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Really hope it's true that there only testing this on T2000 boxes before inflicting it on the T4000.
    Ignore this if you disagree. 
  • jamesE1jamesE1 Member Posts: 1
    Sarah said:
    Hi all,

    Unfortunately the new Home Screen feature was incorrectly deployed to all T2000 devices overnight instead of the smaller, intended target base of devices. 

    To continue with our normal phased approach to rollouts, and to allow us to properly monitor this release for any potential issues, we will be reverting the change on some devices later on today. 

    We apologise for any confusion caused by this and we hope to have all devices updated again in the next few weeks after we've had time to monitor the boxes :) 

    Thanks,
    Sarah
    Hi

    I had the update a few weeks back, but had to full reset my box [bt app stopped working, different issue]. Ever since updating, I'm back to the old home screen even on latest software h2000. Is there a way to force the new screen or do I have to wait?
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,999 ✭✭✭
    jamesE1 said:
    Sarah said:
    Hi all,

    Unfortunately the new Home Screen feature was incorrectly deployed to all T2000 devices overnight instead of the smaller, intended target base of devices. 

    To continue with our normal phased approach to rollouts, and to allow us to properly monitor this release for any potential issues, we will be reverting the change on some devices later on today. 

    We apologise for any confusion caused by this and we hope to have all devices updated again in the next few weeks after we've had time to monitor the boxes :) 

    Thanks,
    Sarah
    Hi

    I had the update a few weeks back, but had to full reset my box [bt app stopped working, different issue]. Ever since updating, I'm back to the old home screen even on latest software h2000. Is there a way to force the new screen or do I have to wait?
    You can go into Settings and try a manual Software Update, and if the new update is waiting for you, you can pull it in.

    But when an update is waiting for you, it will usually download overnight anyway, so really, you can only pull it forward a few hours.

    Failing that, you will just have to wait until the controlled phased release picks your box, in the near future.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • countryman2countryman2 Member Posts: 48
    jamesE1 said:
    Sarah said:
    Hi all,

    Unfortunately the new Home Screen feature was incorrectly deployed to all T2000 devices overnight instead of the smaller, intended target base of devices. 

    To continue with our normal phased approach to rollouts, and to allow us to properly monitor this release for any potential issues, we will be reverting the change on some devices later on today. 

    We apologise for any confusion caused by this and we hope to have all devices updated again in the next few weeks after we've had time to monitor the boxes :) 

    Thanks,
    Sarah
    Hi

    I had the update a few weeks back, but had to full reset my box [bt app stopped working, different issue]. Ever since updating, I'm back to the old home screen even on latest software h2000. Is there a way to force the new screen or do I have to wait?
    We could swap boxes !
  • AdeleAdele Member Posts: 11
    This new layout is NOT user friendly, confusing and without doubt NOT an improvement.   To just put this in place is totally unacceptable.   To coin a phrase, if it's not broke, don't fix it.  It's gone from a very user friendly layout to a totally unuser friendly layout.
  • AdeleAdele Member Posts: 11
    It would actually be nice if YouView were to take notice of all the above comments.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 16,999 ✭✭✭
    Adele said:
    It would actually be nice if YouView were to take notice of all the above comments.
    They are water off a duck’s back, just like NextGen was in 2016, despite literally thousands of postings about it, and all very largely negative.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Claire TwineClaire Twine Member Posts: 74
    edited May 1
    TBH I absolutely hate the new interface - too much information on the screen. Is there any way to get rid of the new interface and go back to how it was, or is that just wishful thinking?
    What I would really like to see is the option to show your recordings alphabetically. I’ve got so much on my box it would be easier to have my recordings listed alphabetically in order to find what I want to watch! I’m sure this was a feature many many years ago.......

  • countryman2countryman2 Member Posts: 48
    Sorted.  I now have the YouView IP addresses and they are blocked !   No more updates for me.  Just a shame I didn't do this before the last update.  :(
  • AdeleAdele Member Posts: 11
    Oh WOW Countryman2, how did you do that.  My only way of resolving this is to never by Humax again.  This latest update is nothing short of a backward step, confusing, unnecessary and annoying.  Recording what I'm watching on iPlayer when I've not asked it to, is quite ridiculous,  I then have to go back to the Wishlist (another 3 clicks) to remove them.  The recorded programmes are shown in reverse order, stupid, and why I need all that information on the screen I do not know.

  • AdeleAdele Member Posts: 11
    Sarah said:
    No, as I said I have none of the options such as "my TV"  "apps" "live TV" etc appear - just a list of programmes I could watch
    Hi @annewebber
    Can you please take a photo of this so we can see what you mean?
    Thanks,
    Sarah
    Sarah - they are just not listening.  Nobody likes the new set up, it is complicated, records things from iPlayer etc without asking it to and then you have to go a convoluted way round before it allows you to delete it because you can't delete it from that row !!  Recordings are in reverse order and I have yet to find one redeeming feature.   I would hope someone would tell me how to revert to the old display otherwise I am going to be looking for an alternative to Humax.
  • AdeleAdele Member Posts: 11
    Sarah said:
    Hi all, 

    We have begun a new and exciting journey to replace the main menu with an improved home screen, giving you easier access to all the same great content in a seamless experience.

    This is the start of releasing many more exciting features, as we aim to create a more personalised experience to help you browse and find TV shows and films that are relevant to you.

    More information on the new Home Screen can be found here





    We now have a full-screen search feature. We can help you find what you're looking for and if it's available on demand or on live TV in the next 7 days.





    Settings & Help are still located in the top right corner. To get to it, you need to press up and then right on the remote control.



    Thanks,
    Sarah
    This is definitely not new and exciting.   Nobody likes the new set up, it is complicated, records things from iPlayer etc without asking it to and then you have to go a convoluted way round before it allows you to delete it because you can't delete it from that row !!  Recordings are in reverse order and I have yet to find one redeeming feature.   I would hope someone would tell me how to revert to the old display otherwise I am going to be looking for an alternative to Humax.   PLEASE indicate how I can get back to the old view.
  • jimbjimb Member, Super User Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭
    Adele said:

    This is definitely not new and exciting.   Nobody likes the new set up, it is complicated, records things from iPlayer etc without asking it to and then you have to go a convoluted way round before it allows you to delete it because you can't delete it from that row !!  Recordings are in reverse order and I have yet to find one redeeming feature.   I would hope someone would tell me how to revert to the old display otherwise I am going to be looking for an alternative to Humax.   PLEASE indicate how I can get back to the old view.
    @Adele There is no way to go back to the old view - you've already been told that.
    You are repeating your complaints over and over again. This is your 10th post on this subject. Please stop doing this.
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