UHD TV. Poor quality

gyprocgyproc Member Posts: 4
Watching tennis on BBC IPlayer streamed from Wimbledon in UHD it is poor compared to HD. ! The picture is dark, it’s not as sharp. The Net shows just how much better the detail is on HD.  Can anyone comment on this please…

Comments

  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 1,016 ✭✭
    Could be a number of thing's 

    Poor screen ( no disrespect but some tv's are better then others)

    Poor broadband. 

    If your broadband isn't fast enough the picture quality will suffer.

    SD is usually woeful when upscaled but HD is usually pretty good . 
    Oh wait
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 June 2022, 5:01PM
    gyproc said:
    Watching tennis on BBC IPlayer streamed from Wimbledon in UHD it is poor compared to HD. ! The picture is dark, it’s not as sharp. The Net shows just how much better the detail is on HD.  Can anyone comment on this please…
    @gyproc

    What are you watching it on? TV make and model?

    And from, if there is a YouView box involved here (no worries if not, and this is just a general observation) or some other source device?

    And what is your internet speed?
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • gyprocgyproc Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for your comments.   My TV is Samsung 50”.
    My internet speed is 49 mbs.  BT.   When I watch 4K on UTube its first class.
    it’s just live streaming from Wimbledon that is not worth watching.  
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 640 ✭✭
    Live UHD require a higher speed than recorded shows in UHD, I read at the weekend. 75mbs is recommended for live transmissions.
    I kept getting the difficulty connecting myself and I'm on 74mps.
    Normal transmissions in UHD are fine.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 June 2022, 7:36PM
    We have 350 of the nominal 500 Mbps measured at the router, but where the Roku Stick+ we did our A/B comparison on sits, I measured 73 Mbps.

    But the picture is rock solid. Switching between Live UHD and Live HD of the Murray/Isner match, on the BBC iPlayer on the Roku into our 55” JS9000 Samsung, first impressions are the UHD is fractionally duller, but significantly more detailed. Switching back, the HD looks a little too bright, as if to make up for the fuzziness 😛

    The experience inclines us to use the UHD wherever possible.

    This is in sharp(!) contrast to last Wimbledon, where with the same setup, the UHD was so dull and washed out that we went back to HD, even though we lost the direct UHD resolution, and just got upscaled HD.

    We think the BBC have got better at capturing live UHD.

    As regards non-live UHD, an A/B on His Dark Materials shows the UHD there is all upside, even including brightness and contrast.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • zulu17zulu17 Member, Super User Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭
    edited 29 June 2022, 8:28PM
    only personal view. 
    Watching the live UHD  centre court streams on the iPlayer on the BT Box Pro the quality seems to be very good.  I was less impressed with the picture of the IPlayer UHD stream provided on the Samsung TV own app but I will qualify that by saying I only watched a couple of minutes.

  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,416 ✭✭✭
    Interesting. A quick look via the onboard iPlayer on my LG TV showed to my eyes a somewhat darker/flatter looking picture in UHD. Might have a tweak with picture settings. LG 4K pictures from other services e.g. Disney+, Prime Video are uniformly excellent. 
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 1,016 ✭✭
    redchiz said:
    Interesting. A quick look via the onboard iPlayer on my LG TV showed to my eyes a somewhat darker/flatter looking picture in UHD. Might have a tweak with picture settings. LG 4K pictures from other services e.g. Disney+, Prime Video are uniformly excellent. 
    As stated above a live broadcast requires greater speeds. 
    Oh wait
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭
    redchiz said:
    Interesting. A quick look via the onboard iPlayer on my LG TV showed to my eyes a somewhat darker/flatter looking picture in UHD. Might have a tweak with picture settings. LG 4K pictures from other services e.g. Disney+, Prime Video are uniformly excellent. 
    @redchiz

    Check you are getting the same Picture Mode Setting on UHD as on HD.
    I was surprised to find Game Mode set for UHD when I looked on my LG GX TV, instead of our usual Vivid, and it appears there is a separate choice of Picture Settings for UHD.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,416 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 June 2022, 4:41PM
    No problems with my speeds, or issues with live football in 4K on Prime. Or BT Sport.

    Will look at settings later as you suggest @Roy, but as I said I have not observed this with any other source. 
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 640 ✭✭
    On my LG, standard and vivid give the court a lime green look and players skin tones are orange. Using cinema mode which gets close to Standard colours on HD.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭
    edited 30 June 2022, 5:48PM
    redchiz said:
    No problems with my speeds, or issues with live football in 4K on Prime. Or BT Sport.

    Will look at settings later as you suggest @Roy, but as I said I have not observed this with any other source. 
    @redchiz

    And nor have I, thinking about it. 

    Did I really watch Dune off a UHD BluRay in Game Mode, and never notice?

    Now I will have to play about with it carefully investigate this later.

    Best if you could check on the same programming - Live UHD on the BBC iPlayer from Wimbledon - in case this is something specific to Live, or to HLG HDR, or whatever.

    And I in turn will put Game Mode back on the HDR Picture Modes, play Dune, and see what Picture Mode it picks up, and if it looks like what I recall.

    (Because TVs are tricky things, and Game Mode set by default may turn on and off differently from Game Mode specifically chosen, like CEC choices can do).
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • gyprocgyproc Member Posts: 4
    All views taken on board… just one thing more, I noticed that after 8 pm when it was starting to go dark the UHD live stream from Wimbledon was better, it was much clearer but a bit more orangey.!  As a kid growing up in the 50s. The bbc radio didn’t play any pop music, so we would listen to Radio Luxembourg, but you didn’t get a good reception till it started going dark.!  All to do with atmospherics my Dad used to say..  could that still be the case today..?  
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 1,016 ✭✭
    Probably just looked better in the low light evening environment. 
    Oh wait
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭
    gyproc said:
    All views taken on board… just one thing more, I noticed that after 8 pm when it was starting to go dark the UHD live stream from Wimbledon was better, it was much clearer but a bit more orangey.!  As a kid growing up in the 50s. The bbc radio didn’t play any pop music, so we would listen to Radio Luxembourg, but you didn’t get a good reception till it started going dark.!  All to do with atmospherics my Dad used to say..  could that still be the case today..?  
    @gyproc

    Yes, atmospherics certainly affected 208, and can still affect TV transmissions today.

    But fortunately, it can’t get into the fibre that brings you UHD over the internet 😛
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • gyprocgyproc Member Posts: 4
    edited 6 July 2022, 5:56PM
    My Tv comes from the Arial on the Roof..!  ?
    Well if it’s not atmospheric what is it,?   I’m watching tennis live now, tried UHD, picture is too dark , my new tv is set at max brightness, so I can’t alter it, and if I did I would be continuously resetting when watching in HD.
    The picture is great in HD, so why bother with UHD.. 
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 640 ✭✭
    My picture is excellent now I have changed my picture to Movie setting.
    On my TV, an LG, it differentiates between transmission sources / types so my normal TV transmission is set to Standard Picture, my UHD internet is set to Movie and my 4k blu ray is set to HDR standard.

    If your TV is not showing the picture as you feel it should, it might be worth checking out a forum for your TV to see if there are additional settings that may be hidden.

    Silly question, but you are using the iPlayer built into the TV or is it from another source?
  • kodikidkodikid Member Posts: 1,016 ✭✭
    UHD is Internet based only. 

    To achieve a clear picture you need a combination of fast broadband and a good quality screen. 

    Millions enjoy the tennis in UHD on the BBC so maybe you're not reaching the necessary criteria yet.
    Oh wait
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 640 ✭✭
    I think it's probably speed related. As I said previously, you really need recommended 75mps for live UHD, or close too.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭
    edited 6 July 2022, 10:36PM
    gyproc said:
    My TV comes from the aerial on the roof..!  ?
    Well if it’s not atmospherics, what is it? I’m watching tennis live now, tried UHD, picture is too dark, my new tv is set at max brightness, so I can’t alter it, and if I did I would be continuously resetting when watching in HD.
    The picture is great in HD, so why bother with UHD?
    @gyproc

    Your broadcast TV (Freeview/YouView) channels 1 to about 239, comes from your aerial. Focusing on Wimbledon on the BBC, you have SD on 1/2, HD on 101/102. All over signals coming through the air, and so subject, potentially, to atmospherics.

    Your UHD of Wimbledon, on the BBC iPlayer, comes over your internet. Fibre, or fibre and copper, to your router, and then an Ethernet cable to your YouView box. No air. 
    Over WiFi to your TV, possibly, through the air, but atmospherics won’t affect the air in your home.

    Anything not UHD on the iPlayer will be HD, but again, not over the air. 
    So, two sources of HD.

    50” doesn’t narrow your Samsung TV down enough for me to pronounce on it, I’m afraid, but I know that like on my LG and @Stevef_fr8ys’ LG, different inputs on Samsung TVs can have different settings; and on my LG GX, even between HD and UHD.

    So you need to make a note of the picture settings on an HD source that you like, and ensure that you have the same settings when watching UHD; if not, make them the same.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,416 ✭✭✭
    I think it's probably speed related. As I said previously, you really need recommended 75mps for live UHD, or close too.
    You really don't, otherwise the vast majority of viewers wouldn't have a chance. Where did you get that number from? 
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 640 ✭✭
    redchiz said:
    I think it's probably speed related. As I said previously, you really need recommended 75mps for live UHD, or close too.
    You really don't, otherwise the vast majority of viewers wouldn't have a chance. Where did you get that number from? 
     I found it when I was having router problems with drop outs.

    This one doesn't quote a speed but does say you need more for live broadcast UHD broadcasts.
    https://www.cable.co.uk/broadband/guides/broadband-streaming/#:~:text=Streaming TV and movies in,more speed, for example).

    Other sites say the same and one said 75 min for live broadcast rather than recorded programme broadcast in UHD, where you need 50.

    Can't find that site now, but the information being streamed live was said to be more complex to broadcast than a recorded programme,requiring a higher speed to keep the stream steady.
  • Rob PRob P Member Posts: 108 ✭✭
    My connection is about 30mpbs and I can get a decent UHD live stream on the iPlayer (built in to LG TV, 2018 vintage). It does pretty much saturate my connection. I would say the picture is slightly darker than the standard HD broadcast, or maybe a slight orange tint, which is not noticeable when streaming the UHD shows also available on iPlayer
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 640 ✭✭
    I get the David Dickinson effect on standard and vivid modes on Wimbledon live UHD broadcasts. By changing this to HDR Movie it, for me removes the orange glow.

  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭
    @Stevef_fr8ys

    A couple of howlers in the article you quote. 

    Firstly, the author never seems to have heard of Now Boost, which long predates the article, and offers true HD 1080p on Now.

    Secondly, she seems to think that BT TV comes over our aerials - possibly because it presents like TV channels do - but of course, it comes over the internet.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Stevef_fr8ysStevef_fr8ys Member, Super User Posts: 640 ✭✭
    @Roy wish I could find the actual article that was much more informative and gave more detail on why live needed more speed v recorded programmes.
  • RoyRoy Member, Super User Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭
    @Roy wish I could find the actual article that was much more informative and gave more detail on why live needed more speed v recorded programmes.
    In the context of Live UHD, I have found:-

    https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/bbc-wimbledon-2022-4k-ultra-hd/

    “Also, remember that for 4K streaming, you need a fast broadband connection – the BBC recommends a connection speed of 24MBit/s for the full 4K experience (3840 pixels), or 12MBit/s for a lower (2560 pixels) resolution.”

    though all such articles make the common mistake of assuming that your internet connection will be dedicated exclusively to that one use, and should really be talking about ‘available bandwidth on your connection’ there.
    ‘Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful’ Wm Morris
  • Tim CTim C Member, Super User Posts: 607 ✭✭
    I was watching Wimbledon on iPlayer yesterday in UHD and monitoring download speeds. It peaked at around 32Mbits/sec and probably averaging around 25Mbits/sec.
  • redchizredchiz Member, Super User Posts: 5,416 ✭✭✭
    ^^^That makes sense. 
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